Plan Yuan Class Aip & Kilo Submarine Thread

Discussion in 'Navy' started by Jeff Head, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. taxiya
    Offline

    taxiya Major
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    7,880
    I think the issue or confusion (at least myself) is that you used word "joint venture" in the post. That is really near impossible.
     
  2. taxiya
    Offline

    taxiya Major
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    7,880
    I know that. I was only pointing out the wrong slide. Here is the slide related to the nuclear AIP
    upload_2019-5-3_21-11-7.png
     
    mys_721tx, N00813 and Hendrik_2000 like this.
  3. taxiya
    Offline

    taxiya Major
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    7,880
    Unfortunately, the Canadian SLOWPOKE design has nothing to do with nuclear propulsion. It is a heating plant that China has built numerous since 1980s. One is just few kilometers from my home in Beijing. It is sub or non critical fuel in a swimming pool to heat up water to less than 100 degrees.

    The Chinese nuclear AIP has steam turbines. It is a conventional reactor like others, but under a relative lower pressure and temperature.
     
  4. Hendrik_2000
    Offline

    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,698
    Likes Received:
    26,709
    I don't think so Having a small turbine mean you need condenser, steam generator, feedwater, pump and other accessories which take a lot of space while at the same time you have diesel engine. In a ship space is premium even more so in submarine. Remember we are talking about 3000 to 4000 ton ships here. Typical nuclear sub is 10000 ton.

    If you lower the pressure and temperature then you lower the enthalpy of steam meaning you need larger steam turbine and much lower efficiency
    In civilian nuclear power plant the steam is categorized as "wet steam" meaning it is close to saturation point and need large steam turbine
    Most likely they used the small reactor as plug to generate electricity directly

    I bring out slopoke to show that there is such thing as small reactor that operate automatically and safe. No need for nuclear engineer on board or elaborate shielding. That is another problem that you face in nuclear sub. no room. At one time they want to scale it up to 5 MW.

    In nuclear sub most likely they used HTGR which generate high pressure and high temperature steam using small steam turbine I though I post 20 MW steam turbine generator gen set at one time
    There is no way you can use wet steam for that genset.

    The report clearly said it is hybrid system Diesel and small nuclear plant
     
    #674 Hendrik_2000, May 4, 2019
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  5. Hendrik_2000
    Offline

    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,698
    Likes Received:
    26,709
    Here is typical schematic of nuclear sub
    [​IMG]
    See the difference in turbine blade size between HP turbine and Low Press Turbine. sorry Iuse the wrong term should be Enthropy and not Enthalpy
     
    #675 Hendrik_2000, May 4, 2019
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  6. Tam
    Offline

    Tam Senior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    3,438
    This mini nuclear reactor + AIP sounds like something the Type 032 Qing class (6,628 tons displacement) might be called to serve as an experimental test platform.
     
  7. taxiya
    Offline

    taxiya Major
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    7,880
    But the PLAN think so ;)
    upload_2019-5-4_19-36-51.png
    P.S. and most importantly, it is a THREE loop reactor, different from conventional PWR in SSN/SSBNs.
    It is natural circulated due to the lower temperature and power output.

    All your arguments are based on conventional "high pressure, high temperature" two loop PWR, BUT we are talking about a different thing "low pressure, low temperature" three loop PWR.

    Besides, PLAN admit that this reactor has lower efficiency than conventional PWR, they have no problem with it, it is a AIP, not a true SSN/SSBN.
     
    #677 taxiya, May 4, 2019
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
    mys_721tx and N00813 like this.
  8. taxiya
    Offline

    taxiya Major
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    7,880
    But we are not talking about TYPICAL naval PWR.
     
  9. Hendrik_2000
    Offline

    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,698
    Likes Received:
    26,709
    Still need steam generator and and condenser, you can avoid using pump but there is no way to avoid steam generator and condenser because it is rankine cycle after all And pump it still needed for the steam generator loop it is shown on right hand corner
    The primary loop does not need pump
     
  10. taxiya
    Offline

    taxiya Major
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    7,880
    That is true, and no objection to that. But we are only talking about what PLAN has planned for their future AIP "conventional" sub, not what is the perfect sub, right?
     
Loading...

Share This Page