News on China's scientific and technological development.

Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by Quickie, Dec 9, 2008.

Page 444 of 516

Offline

Jura General

Joined:

Jun 23, 2013

Messages:

23,585

Likes Received:

27,630

Yesterday at 9:39 PM

Jura said: ↑

this:

N00813 said: ↑

chart is fascinating for example each node with a perfo (don't nitpick) of
Earth-Simulator https://www.top500.org/system/167148
!!

in perspective:

EDIT
Nov 28, 2016 predicted a zetta-computer (1e21) would be attained around 2035 LOL
http://archive.is/mB0FK works

#4431 Jura, Jul 29, 2018
Last edited: Jul 29, 2018

Equation likes this.
Offline

taxiya Major
Registered Member

Joined:

Dec 24, 2006

Messages:

3,768

Likes Received:

8,346

SamuraiBlue said: ↑

I doubt it.
AMD is not the legal entity owning core X86 patent, they only have a cross patent agreement with Intel.
Intel is the only entity that can provide usage right of the patent.

You doubt what? That purchase was publicly announced by AMD, the chip is being produced in China under that agreement, and no US government agencies objected it.

And it is not patent, it is license. AMD did not sell the ownership of the license. AMD sold a right of usage of the license, and AMD apparently has the right to do so, since Intel never sued AMD in any US court.

Don't pretend that you know things more than US government, Intel and AMD.

#4432 taxiya, Jul 29, 2018

antiterror13, mr.bean, Equation and 3 others like this.
Offline

Jura General

Joined:

Jun 23, 2013

Messages:

23,585

Likes Received:

27,630

Icmer said: ↑

... Chinese supercomputing ...

now I've read about related CPUs; it's dated 10 Jul 2018, kinda cool:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/10/amd_china/
I think I'm a clone now: Chinese AMD Epyc-like server chips appear in China. What gives?
We answer your questions in five minutes

Watercooler Hey El Reg, over the past few days I've seen news that Chinese chip biz Hygon is producing server-grade processors virtually identical to AMD Epyc processors. I'm kinda getting deja vu – you, too?

You're not the only one. We reported back in April 2016 that...

AMD and THATIC – Tianjin Haiguang Advanced Technology Investment Co – have formed a joint venture to, in AMD's words, "develop system-on-chips tailored to the Chinese server market that will complement AMD’s own offerings." AMD has basically licensed its microprocessor technologies to THATIC, which will build chips for enterprise, data center and government buyers in China.

Hygon is a joint venture 30 per cent owned by AMD and the rest by THATIC, and is otherwise known as Chengdu Haiguang Integrated Circuit Design Co. Ltd. It produces an x86-compatible family of server-grade system-on-chips called Dhyana.

What's new here is that in June this year, patches landed for the open-source Linux kernel to support first-generation Dhyana processors.

These non-socketed components have their own hardware identification numbers – for example, PCIe vendor ID 0x1D94 and CPU family 0x18 – and identification strings – HygonGenuine versus AMD's AuthenticAMD and Intel's GenuineIntel.

However, other than that they share the same technology as AMD's Zen-based Epyc processors, to the point where the Dhyana Linux kernel support patches differ from the kernel's AMD Epyc support code by fewer than a couple of hundred lines of source code.

So these are ripoff clones?

No, AMD licensed its Zen processor designs to its friends in China so they can produce complete chips that are, admittedly, virtually identical to its Epyc line.

But why? Why not just sell Epyc chips made for other markets in China?

Because the Chinese government is hell bent on weaning its technology sector off Western processors and similar parts. It wants its web giants, and computer, phone, and server makers, to use homegrown and homebuilt chips within China.

This is partly due to economics and pride, partly due to Uncle Sam banning exports of Intel Xeons to China's boffins, and partly due to not trusting American parts. Don't forget the backdoors the NSA slipped into US-built gear!

The Chinese government is also accused of slipping exploitable holes deliberately into hardware exported from the Middle Kingdom.

Thus, Beijing insists on – indeed, is prioritizing, subsidizing, and investing heavily in – chips produced by Chinese organizations for use strictly within China, especially within its government agencies and military wings. The ongoing US-China trade war is, we imagine, accelerating China's drive to get homegrown silicon into Chinese devices.

But AMD is American, so how does that work?

AMD has been cunning in how it has structured this whole arrangement. AMD and THATIC got together in a joint venture to license the Zen technology to Chinese organizations. China-based THATIC duly formed Chengdu Haiguang Microelectronics Technology, Ltd (CHMT), another Chinese joint-venture that is 51 per cent owned by AMD. CHMT's job is to manufacture the Dhyana series, which is designed, marketed and sold by Hygon.

Thus, AMD and THATIC license AMD's Zen CPU cores to CHMT, which licenses them to Hygon. That last-mentioned company lays out peripherals, power control, and other input-output electronics around those Zen cores to form the Dhyana system-on-chip packages, and passes its work back to CHMT, which gives the final designs to TSMC, and other foundries to fabricate.

That complex corporate structure lets AMD keep a tight grip on its valuable processor core blueprints and still satisfies the rules on Chinese ownership of chip companies. AMD owns most of CHMT, and THATIC owns the majority of Hygon, which is the public face of Dhyana.

But Zen and Epyc are now in a nation notorious for copyright infringement. Is AMD playing with fire, here?

CHMT need only be given enough intellectual property from AMD to physically produce the chips – typically a mind-bogglingly non-trivial "netlist" of gates that's difficult to reverse engineer – rather than the high-level source code used to define, describe, and design modern processor cores. That way the USA's latest server-grade x86 secrets stay, hopefully and mostly, out of the hands of spies and corporate thieves.

And since CHMT is majority owned by AMD, the whole shebang doesn't fall foul of AMD's agreements and licensing with Intel on x86 technology and patents. As a result, China gets its own tailored Epyc-like server-grade 64-bit x86-compatible processors.

It also allows the Chinese to customize their Zen-based system-on-chips, such as replacing hardware-accelerated AES cryptography features with support for Beijing-approved encryption algorithms, and be sure there are no backdoors in the silicon, depending on what exactly CHMT is given by its masters in California.

Cheers, El Reg!

#4433 Jura, Jul 29, 2018

antiterror13, Equation, Icmer and 1 other person like this.
Offline

Icmer Junior Member
Registered Member

Joined:

Nov 18, 2017

Messages:

202

Likes Received:

263

Jura said: ↑

now I've read about related CPUs; it's dated 10 Jul 2018, kinda cool:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/10/amd_china/
I think I'm a clone now: Chinese AMD Epyc-like server chips appear in China. What gives?
We answer your questions in five minutes

I recall reading a NY Times article back in November that was heavily critical of AMD's joint venture in China:

China’s Technology Ambitions Could Upset the Global Trade Order
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/business/made-in-china-technology-trade.html

The quotes used in the article express shock and indignation that the agreement wasn't blocked by US regulators. It was simply unbearable to them that China managed to obtain technology fairly and legally - even though technically AMD's safeguards mean that China would be unable to reverse-engineer the Zen architecture.

#4434 Icmer, Jul 29, 2018

N00813, Equation and Jura like this.
Offline

Jura General

Joined:

Jun 23, 2013

Messages:

23,585

Likes Received:

27,630

Icmer said: ↑

I recall reading a NY Times article back in November that was heavily critical of AMD's joint venture in China:

China’s Technology Ambitions Could Upset the Global Trade Order
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/business/made-in-china-technology-trade.html

The quotes used in the article express shock and indignation that the agreement wasn't blocked by US regulators. It was simply unbearable to them that China managed to obtain technology fairly and legally - even though technically AMD's safeguards mean that China would be unable to reverse-engineer the Zen architecture.

LOL I heard the teeth grinding in end of
Old Rules, New Products
paragraph:

“When they first announced the partnership I was shocked,” said Stacy Rasgon, a semiconductor analyst with Sanford Bernstein.

“You would think intellectual property and joint ventures would belong under Cfius review,” Mr. Rasgon said, referring to the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, which reviews foreign deals. “It should. It’s surprising it isn’t.”

#4435 Jura, Jul 29, 2018

Icmer and Equation like this.
Offline

taxiya Major
Registered Member

Joined:

Dec 24, 2006

Messages:

3,768

Likes Received:

8,346

It happened few days ago, the cold atomic clock has been run aboard Tiangong-2 for 15 months.
World First: Chinese Physicists Made a Cold Atomic Clock Work in Space
Chinese team runs cold atomic clock in space for 15 months

The tech details published.
In-orbit operation of an atomic clock based on laser-cooled 87Rb atoms

In my imagination, before the size is brought down it can be used by BDS by transmitting the sync signals via the GEO and IGSO BDS sattelites to all MEOs. In the long run, when the size is small enought, the clock can be moved to the next generation GEO and IGSO BDS sattelites or even MEOs. The outcome is the multifold increase of BDS accuracy, if today is decimeters, it will be cetemeters or millimeters.

#4436 taxiya, Jul 29, 2018

antiterror13, mr.bean, N00813 and 2 others like this.
Offline

N00813 Junior Member
Registered Member

Joined:

Jan 13, 2016

Messages:

157

Likes Received:

587

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333548

YMTC to Detail 3D NAND Chips
Xtacking said to enable DDR4 speeds

SAN JOSE, Calif. — Yangtze Memory Technologies Co., Ltd. (YMTC) will unveil next week its latest 3D NAND chips. The talk by chief executive Simon Yang at the Flash Memory Summit here will mark the first public discussion of an effort from China to produce leading-edge memory chips.

YTMC will describe what it calls Xtacking as an approach to 3D NAND that delivers a “speed-up to DRAM DDR4 while delivering industry-leading bit density, marking a quantum leap for the NAND market.” Xtacking “enables parallel processing of the NAND array and periphery … a modular approach [that will] shorten the time-to-market for new generations of 3D NAND and open the possibility for customized NAND flash products,” according to a press statement.

The company, described as the pride of China, has long been seen as one of the country’s most likely candidates to deliver a commercially viable mainstream memory chip. It was founded in 2016 with a whopping $24 billion in funding, leveraging the 12-inch fabs of China’s XMC in Wuhan.

YMTC announced a 32-layer 3D NAND chip last year and said that it would ship this year a 48-layer version. In February, a Wall Street analyst said that YMTC’s yields on its 32-layer NAND chips were still very low, suggesting that a 48-layer part could still be many months from general availability.

If YMTC’s target remains the same, it will be one or two steps behind larger rivals. Intel, Micron, Samsung, and Toshiba/WD have announced or are shipping 96-layer, 4-bit-per-cell devices. Samsung said that its chips have DDR4-like speeds at 1.4 Gbits/second.

The YMTC news comes at a time of heightened trade tensions between the U.S. and China, where semiconductors have been a particular flash point.

Industry trade groups have long lobbied the U.S. government to help set a level playing field in China. The China government is investing heavily in chips and requiring foreign firms to transfer their technology in exchange for market access, they claim. However, they protested the Trump administration’s recent tariffs as an ineffective and even harmful approach.

YMTC said that its Xtacking chips will be used in UFS as well as client and enterprise solid-state drives for use in smartphones, PCs, and data centers. The company claims that it has “help from customers, industry partners, and standard bodies [to enable] a whole new chapter in high-performance NAND solutions.”

Ironically, Samsung, which was the first company to announce commercial 3D NAND chips at the Flash Memory Summit, is not participating in the event this year. The gap leaves YMTC an opening to be the talk of the show at which all the other major flash vendors are participating.

#4437 N00813, Aug 2, 2018

antiterror13, Jura and Equation like this.
Offline

Jura General

Joined:

Jun 23, 2013

Messages:

23,585

Likes Received:

27,630

now I read
China Focus: Chinese scientists perform genetic surgery to create first single-chromosome yeast
Xinhua| 2018-08-02 21:44:12 http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-08/02/c_137364399.htm

Brewer's yeast, one-third of whose genome is said to share ancestry with humans, has 16 chromosomes. However, Chinese scientists have managed to fit nearly all its genetic material into just one chromosome while not affecting the majority of its functions, according to a paper released Thursday on the website of the journal Nature.

Qin Zhongjun, a molecular biologist at the Center for Excellence in Molecular Plant Sciences of the Shanghai Institute of Plant Physiology and Ecology under the Chinese Academy of Sciences, and his team used CRISPR-Cas9 genome-editing to create a single-chromosome yeast strain, the paper said.

Yeast is a type of eukaryote, which also includes humans, plants, and animals. Humans have 46 chromosomes, whereas male jack jumper ants have just one. It seems that the number of chromosomes of a eukaryote has no correlation with the amount of genetic information they possess, the paper said.

"Our research shows that all the genetic information can be concentrated in just one chromosome," Qin said.

In the past, researchers had fused two yeast chromosomes together, but no one had ever performed the type of extreme genetic surgery that Qin and his colleagues set out to do several years ago.

Using the CRISPR-Cas9, Qin's team removed the DNA at the telomeres, the ends of chromosomes that protect them from degrading. They also snipped out the centromeres, sequences in the middle that are important to DNA replication, the paper said.

First, they fused two chromosomes, then joined this product to another chromosome, and repeated the process in successive rounds until there was only one chromosome left, it said.

Despite the genetic clipping and restructuring, yeast with one "super-chromosome" is similar to natural yeast in cell growth and gene expression, Qin said.

"It overturns the traditional view that gene expression is determined by the structure of chromosomes," he said.

By simplifying a complex genome system, Qin suggested that the research provides a new approach to studying the functions of telomeres.

Earlier research found that the length of telomeres is related to early aging, the formation of tumors, and other diseases. Telomeres shorten as a cell splits, but if telomeres cannot shorten anymore, the cell dies.

"A normal yeast genome has 32 telomeres of various lengths. It is too hard to describe each telomere's changes or reactions to drugs. But with only one chromosome and two telomeres, it will be easier to find the patterns," Qin said.

The research may also pave the way for new man-made species in the future. "Yeast has great tolerance in genetic modification, and it is possible to add new chromosome segments to the genome. Researchers can make bolder attempts," he said.

According to the paper, the change to the chromosome number has little impact on the gene activity. However, the single-chromosome strain produces fewer spores, which are reproductive cells for non-flowering plants, bacteria, fungi, and algae, in sexual reproduction.

"The survival rate of spores produced by a natural yeast strain is 98 percent, while that of ours is 87.5 percent. The gap is not big," Qin said.

The paper also said that Jef Boeke, a geneticist at New York University, and his team submitted their outcome for similar research. They condensed the yeast genome into a pair of chromosomes, but could not fuse the pair into one.

One explanation for the difference is that Qin's team removed 19 repetitive stretches of DNA. Qin suggested these sequences might have interfered with the mechanism that cells use to fuse two chromosomes into one.

The two teams worked independently from each other.

am adding: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05857-9

#4438 Jura, Aug 3, 2018

N00813, Equation and Ali Qizilbash like this.
Offline

Jura General

Joined:

Jun 23, 2013

Messages:

23,585

Likes Received:

27,630

now I read
China's newest micro-rocket has fast production cycle
Xinhua| 2018-07-31 22:43:49 http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-07/31/c_137359970.htm

China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) on Tuesday unveiled its micro rocket the Lightning Dragon No.1.

The rocket, the first in the Lightning Dragon series, could have a carrying capacity of no less than 150 kilograms and operate on the sun-synchronous orbit, said CASC.

The rocket is capable of launching within 24 hours after arriving at the launch site. It can be delivered to the customer six months after the signing of the contract.

It is now under development by Chinarocket Co., Ltd. under CASC.

The device features a complete cabin space of 1.1 meters in width and 1.5 meters in height.

The rocket is capable of carrying out launch missions consisting of one-rocket-one-satellite and one-rocket-multiple-satellites, said CASC.

"The Lightning Dragon series micro-rocket is named after the Chinese word for dragon, as they are both fast, agile, and flexible," said Tang Yagang, president of Chinarocket.

The unit loading cost is lower than other similar products in the global market.

#4439 Jura, Aug 4, 2018

Equation and N00813 like this.
Offline

antiterror13 Colonel

Joined:

Feb 5, 2006

Messages:

4,217

Likes Received:

4,598

taxiya said: ↑

It happened few days ago, the cold atomic clock has been run aboard Tiangong-2 for 15 months.
World First: Chinese Physicists Made a Cold Atomic Clock Work in Space
Chinese team runs cold atomic clock in space for 15 months

The tech details published.
In-orbit operation of an atomic clock based on laser-cooled 87Rb atoms

In my imagination, before the size is brought down it can be used by BDS by transmitting the sync signals via the GEO and IGSO BDS sattelites to all MEOs. In the long run, when the size is small enought, the clock can be moved to the next generation GEO and IGSO BDS sattelites or even MEOs. The outcome is the multifold increase of BDS accuracy, if today is decimeters, it will be cetemeters or millimeters.

perhaps already planned for Beidou 4 or 5

#4440 antiterror13, Aug 4, 2018

Equation, KIENCHIN and taxiya like this.

(You must log in or sign up to post here.)

Page 444 of 516

Loading...

Similar Threads

China's Internet Boom, Games, Addiction & other news

crobato, Nov 3, 2009, in forum: Members' Club Room

Replies:

97

Views:

16,152

Infra_Man99

Feb 19, 2010
Czech Republic thread: news only, no discussion

zgx09t, Sep 9, 2019, in forum: Members' Club Room

Replies:

20

Views:

2,827

zgx09t

Nov 16, 2019
India thread: news only, no discussion

zgx09t, Sep 8, 2019, in forum: Members' Club Room

Replies:

32

Views:

2,374

Bltizo

Sep 9, 2019
Philippines thread: news only, no discussion

zgx09t, Sep 8, 2019, in forum: Members' Club Room

Replies:

9

Views:

1,391

Jura

Dec 1, 2019
Kashmir: news only, no discussion

zgx09t, Sep 8, 2019, in forum: Members' Club Room

Replies:

63

Views:

5,624

timepass

Dec 14, 2019 at 12:54 PM

Share This Page