Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

Discussion in 'Strategic Defense' started by Kampfwagen, Sep 30, 2006.

  1. Ambivalent
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    Ambivalent Junior Member

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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    How much of this "reportage" is lobbying by defense contractors and their supporters? Just askin' ......

    You might be surprise how much of the fight over the defense budget takes the form of such new releases. Take it all with a grain of salt. A proportion of these articles are sea stories aimed at a constituency.
     
  2. Ambivalent
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    Ambivalent Junior Member

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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    Eh, not totally buying that. The Brits had some modern weapons like AIM-9L, Seawolf and Sea Dart that proved effective. The Brits had effective seduction jammers that saved one of their carriers. One of the two Exocet missiles that were diverted re-locked on Atlantic Conveyor which had no ECM and was hit. The Brits had one very trick piece of equipment out there, a laser system, that claimed a few Argentine Daggers. I have seen the exact weapon on a Royal Navy ship. The crew was quite proud of it. There certainly weren't any of those used in WWII. It was used to light up the canopy and blind the pilot. If you ever wonder why Argentine and British accounts of who shot down what with what weapon never jive, I suspect this is part of the reason.
     
  3. bd popeye
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    bd popeye The Last Jedi
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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    I deliberately left this statement below out of the news article..

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/17/will-chinas-carrier-killer-missile-change-navy-str/

    ..So I could later post it..and I did not want to inflame anyone.. You see as an retired Admiral ADM. Lyons(USN ret.) can state what others are more than likely are thinking. He knows no one will freeze him in rank or stick him behind a desk or force an early retirement.
     
  4. ccL1
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    ccL1 New Member

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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    Chinese arrogance? Were the Chinese being arrogant about this?

    I feel that all this fear about the DF-21 was stoked mainly by US defence companies to sell their own weaponry and naval higher-ups to increase the Navy's budget. And it is a fact that we don't know what this missile can do, let alone even find a target.

    If the Chinese military comes out with a new mouse-trap, the US defence industry and naval command will find some way to turn that into a "threat" for their own purposes.
     
  5. advill
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    advill Junior Member

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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    It is unlikely to be the end of the Carrier Age. China, India & UK are building their Carriers. Russia is purchasing the Mistral "Carrier" from France. Japan and South Korea have also built their "Destroyer" (DDH) carrying helicopters - they look more like small carriers.
     
  6. bd popeye
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    bd popeye The Last Jedi
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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    Japan and the ROK DDHs are carriers as you describe..

    ROKN LP-X Dokdo (Landing Platform Experimental) Amphibious Ship;
    Displacement 18,860 tons fully loaded
    Length 200m(656ft) length
    Beam 32m(?)(105ft)

    JMSDF DDH-161 Hyuga / 16DDH
    Displacement 18,000-20,000 tons
    Length 185m(606ft)
    Beam 32m(105ft)

    Hardly destroyers.

    It is estimated theHyuga may carry as many as 24 helos.

    The Dokdo may carry 15 helos.
     
  7. solarz
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    solarz Brigadier

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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    Sure, it's difficult to target a moving ship, and, as Ambivalent pointed out, there are plenty of ways that a CBG can hide itself.

    That's why I said: "whether or not the DF21 can actually sink a carrier is irrelevant". Even if the DF21 had a decent targeting rate, there's no telling how effective it will be in actual combat.

    However (!), that doesn't matter! The fact that the Chinese *could* have a weapon that can destroy a carrier poses a huge risk, not only to the US Navy and personelle, but to the image of American naval supremacy. No US administration is going to risk a carrier like this unless they were ready for open war.
     
  8. Duran
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    Duran New Member

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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    From Spartan95's theoretic model, I modify as below.

    We tend to calculate the evasion distance of air carrier according to DF-21D's travel time to target. Yet from entry profile of space shuttle, we can find there is around 100 km (altitude before black-out) to sea level. If DF-21D updates air-carrier's position before its entry into the atmosphere, the time-to-hit will be less then 1 minute and the travel distance will shorten to less than 1 kilometer (700 meters). In addition, air-carrier's evasion measures, urgent take-off of air-planes, might limit its freedom of movement. Judging from air-carrier's length and huge body, it will be an obvious target located in such narrow area.

    entry profile - space shuttle.jpg
     
  9. bd popeye
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    bd popeye The Last Jedi
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    Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

    Huh?

    Theories are nice. But you still have to prove them. I'm not aware of a DF-21 hitting a moving target at sea.
     
  10. Spartan95
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    Spartan95 Junior Member

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    You are refering to USN vessels that carry strike aircraft?

    I would think that would have been taken into account when the PLA Navy decided on how many 022s, submarines, etc they would need to use to hunt such vessels within the 1st Island Chain in the event of just such a scenario.

    This is the typical American/British mindset.

    Bear in mind that the NATO missiles (such as Harpoon & Exocets) were designed for open ocean warfare against USSR ships. These are essentially Cold War designs that have gone through various upgrades over the years. These missiles are not designed specifically for use in the congested littorals.

    Thus, the question is whether navies that operate in the littorals (such as the PLA Navy) have designed missiles specifically for use in the congested littorals? There is probably no evidence in the open realm to support this. But, to assume that lack of evidence means there is no such weapon could prove a costly mistake when it turns out otherwise.
     
    #860 Spartan95, Jan 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2011
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