Hong-Kong Protests

PanAsian said:

It would be funny if the judge didn't enable the criminal to get away with it, this is simple injustice. When things like this happen they need to highlight who the judge is and their dubious reasoning.

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They will, it wouldn't surprised me when all this is over, they will purge the judiciary, education, and press!

China foreign ministry Wah Chun Ying response to Hong Kong bill. Sanctions placed on NGO (about time) such as NED!

KYli said:

We have to agree and disagree. The discussion is going no where.

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Well I think you and Pan Asian are both part right but that it is not anything as black and white as you both paint.
I have no doubt that many that voted PanDem had other issues on their minds and may well not have tacitly supported the riots and violence.
They did however vote PanDem in the full knowledge that there vote would be taken as support and justification by the rioters.

One thought to leave you with though is that Local and Municipal elections are used world wide by unhappy electors to give a bloody nose to the incumbent.
When however the main National Elections come around, most people revert to type and vote the way they always usually do vote.
We have this in spades in the UK at the moment in out general election, where local and other election support for the "challenger" parties has collapsed in favour of the the two main ones.
It is what usually happens.
I doubt Hong Kong will be that much of an exception

Glad to hear about the moves against the NGO's I hope they present them with the bill for policing and clean up

PanAsian said:

He means "...our former colonial masters' prime minister..." Winston Churchill the racist and mass murderer.

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@timepass ​

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But of course, "our Prime Minister" as per Wong's judgement. Have form before 1947. He was one of the main designer of the imfamous camps in the boar war at the turn of the last century. A much less publicise time of his life, kept very much depress because of the British held him to such a high esteem for his war contribution. It's another inconvenience truth they still to keep a lid on! I rememeber growing up in the UK, you criticise W Churchill at your own peril!

Gatekeeper said:

But of course, "our Prime Minister" as per Wong's judgement. Have form before 1947. He was one of the main designer of the imfamous camps in the boar war at the turn of the last century. A much less publicise time of his life, kept very much depress because of the British held him to such a high esteem for his war contribution. It's another inconvenience truth they still to keep a lid on! I rememeber growing up in the UK, you criticise W Churchill at your own peril!

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Should've kicked him out of Hong Kong to U.K. after he had said "our Prime Minister".

KYli said:

Many people wonder what is the end game. The end game for the rioters is to force the central government to send in PAPs or the military to intervene. The so called violent protests or the general strike are to provoke the police so that the HKPF would make mistakes and the HK government would pressure to create a special committee to investigate and prosecution the police. Many western governments were asked by the rioters to pass laws either to threaten the HK government/HKPF or to create a special committee to investigate the police. That's why I am strongly against the idea of a special committee. The central government still has the choice not to use the military to intervene is due to the HKPF can still contain the violence.

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I have wondered this myself, what is the end game, even beyond the current situation? Is it just the ability to vote for the CE? Is it to guarantee 1C2S past 2047? Is it independence? These are the interesting questions. I don't think the anti-government factions really have an answer themselves. At the moment, it is just easy to fight.

Let's say the short term goal of the violence was to draw in PLA/PAP (I've heard this too). Even if PAP or PLA was to come in and just start shooting everyone, what would the end game of even this be?

The two anti-government outcomes I have heard are the following:

1. Invite Western military intervention to "save" HK
This is the most outrageous of the possibilities I have heard. Basically you want to turn up the violence to a level where it prompts some kind of massacre to happen in your own city. As if this level of mass death was not enough, you want a war to happen and more people to die? Heck, it would likely be some kind of World War were it to happen. Furthermore, this would be so blatantly ignorant of reality, the US didn't liberate PRC after Tienanmen, they didn't liberate Crimea from Russia either.

2. Sanctions to collapse the CCP and "free" China (or at least HK)
Sanctions don't work. History shows it. Fidel had a nice long career and life. Sadaam was ultimately brought down by another war, not sanctions. Putin is still around. I posted an article in the Economics thread, Huawei was already able to turnaround an "America-Free" phone. Jimmy Lie, spreading unrealistic ideas to promote his/America's agenda.

I think this is the obvious sign of how the so-called "leaderless" is simply poison for HK, tailor-made just to sow discord, and chaos. None of these outcomes are realistic, or actually benefit HK. The reason the "black hand(s) behind the protest" theory is so popular is because the actual motivations are so murky, and any real realistic positive outcome even more so.

The end game is chaos and slowing down China’s economy

supersnoop said:

I have wondered this myself, what is the end game, even beyond the current situation? Is it just the ability to vote for the CE? Is it to guarantee 1C2S past 2047? Is it independence? These are the interesting questions. I don't think the anti-government factions really have an answer themselves. At the moment, it is just easy to fight.

Let's say the short term goal of the violence was to draw in PLA/PAP (I've heard this too). Even if PAP or PLA was to come in and just start shooting everyone, what would the end game of even this be?

The two anti-government outcomes I have heard are the following:

1. Invite Western military intervention to "save" HK
This is the most outrageous of the possibilities I have heard. Basically you want to turn up the violence to a level where it prompts some kind of massacre to happen in your own city. As if this level of mass death was not enough, you want a war to happen and more people to die? Heck, it would likely be some kind of World War were it to happen. Furthermore, this would be so blatantly ignorant of reality, the US didn't liberate PRC after Tienanmen, they didn't liberate Crimea from Russia either.

2. Sanctions to collapse the CCP and "free" China (or at least HK)
Sanctions don't work. History shows it. Fidel had a nice long career and life. Sadaam was ultimately brought down by another war, not sanctions. Putin is still around. I posted an article in the Economics thread, Huawei was already able to turnaround an "America-Free" phone. Jimmy Lie, spreading unrealistic ideas to promote his/America's agenda.

I think this is the obvious sign of how the so-called "leaderless" is simply poison for HK, tailor-made just to sow discord, and chaos. None of these outcomes are realistic, or actually benefit HK. The reason the "black hand(s) behind the protest" theory is so popular is because the actual motivations are so murky, and any real realistic positive outcome even more so.

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Typical snowflake attitude: I'm the centre of the world. If I don't get my way, no one will get his/her as well.

Tuesday at 8:26 AM

Jura said:

last week I read there should be something major on Dec. 8

Friday at 8:12 AM
oops I incorrectly said Dec. 8 would come on Friday

using google now:
"A big test of support for the anti-government campaign is expected on Dec. 8 in a rally planned by Civil Human Rights Front, the group that organized million-strong marches in June."

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updating with
Major Hong Kong anti-government rally and march get police permission

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Part of the ongoing propaganda war against Chinese.