Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

airsuperiority said:

I'm sure we know what we are getting ourselves into. if it doesn't work he ain't coming back. plus, pro-Chinese candidates will always be around. if we can't handle the pandemocrats we may consider someone from the other camp. regardless gotta give it a try. also China shant worry too much. hk is so connected to China for economy and Hk is so business based, the CE has to look out for the business people's interests and still function healthy with China. and if we mess up we at least wont blame China

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That's why I fully support democratization of Hong Kong.

I'm even fine with Hong Kong getting independence.

I'm even fine with us shutting down our businesses and block our people from entering Hong Kong.

Guess if we eliminate our presence there, we won't take any blame for anything happened there.

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

xiabonan said:

Look at Taiwan.

Taiwan is probably a better case. It, too, was one of the most promising economies in the world, and one of the envies of Asia before the democratic change. Four Asian tigers, remember? When people elected Chen Shui-bian, he was once the "son of Taiwan", then what happened? Huge corruption. Fraud. Tried, jailed.

Then there came Ma Ying-jeou. But today as I browse through Taiwan's forums, there's NONE praising him. Some even said they were "blind" enough to vote him and felt ashamed.

Almost 20 years have passed. Taiwan's economy is still stagnating. Young people's pay isn't rising, but everything else is increasing. When I was in Taiwan last year, my guide was telling me with a very worried face, "we could only choose the less evil and corrupt from the two evil and corrupt." It took the Taipei City's government to build 4km of metro lines in 8 years. While during that same amount of Time, China build 10,000 km of high-speed rail and thousands of kilometres of metro lines all over the country.

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lol, your post is propaganda filled that you shouldapply for a work in the Party. I only missed a line of that Taiwanese saying something like 'Oh, I wish I was born in the mainland China!'

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

xiabonan said:

I got to say, if that thing is what majority of the Hong Kong people want, my heart is with you and I wish you all the best in getting it.

But I'm worried at the same time.

I'm worried that the leader you selected again had to represent the interests of tycoons instead of ordinary Hong Kong people.

I'm worried that the leader you selected had to represent the interests of Beijing.

I'm worried that the leader you selected, although has a heart full of Hong Kong's citizens, is unable to deliver because of incapability.

I'm worried that HK, being a small city that can't afford much unrest and protests, eventually lose its attraction to businesses because of future democratic protests that's bound to happen.

I'm worried that, when everything goes your way, but it didn't turn out well, who are you going to blame next?

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trust us, we cant blame China if he's someone we picked. and at least we can get rid of him ourselves. and no one can get any worse than the current guy, who Beijing got for us. Beijing is that bad at this job, look what's happening now. and you don't see protesters going violent at all so far.

and whoever we picked will/should know what stakes hk carries by default. a politician who doesn't know what hk is made of(business)isnt fit to be CE and certainly no way to be elected. we ain't gonna pick a potato for CE just simply we wanna play with the ballot box. too much influences in Hk political scene right now all pro Beijing and not care about our welfare

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

Brumby said:

I am not religious. I am a Christian. A distinction that is generally not understood.

Regarding protest to maximise disruption is not something I personally agree with and potentially sets up an escalation path that may have unwarranted consequences.

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Well, look to your own holy books for examples of ideas that did not need disrupting everyone else's lives to spread.

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

airsuperiority said:

You don't understand so I won't blame you, and no, Hong Kong's growth to what it is today had nothing to do with China until 1997, which by then HK is a world class city.

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Oh come on! You are better than that mate.

The very reason the British wanted Hong Kong in the first place was as a gateway to China.

Hong Kongers were some of the first to invest in mainland China after the opening up, and that investment helped China enormously, but don't be naive in thinking those Hong Kongers did that out of the goodness of their own hearts and didn't profit enormously as well.

To suggest HK's development and prosperity had nothing to do with China until 1997 is simply a rejection of reality.

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

plawolf said:

Oh come on! You are better than that mate.

The very reason the British wanted Hong Kong in the first place was as a gateway to China.

Hong Kongers were some of the first to invest in mainland China after the opening up, and that investment helped China enormously, but don't be naive in thinking those Hong Kongers did that out of the goodness of their own hearts and didn't profit enormously as well.

To suggest HK's development and prosperity had nothing to do with China until 1997 is simply a rejection of reality.

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sorry lemme clarify. I was thinking of infrastructure building when I said that. I'm not a business major so business isn't the first thing on my mind

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

There's something else I want to point out.

Hong Kong is losing its comparative advantage, not only because of incapable leadership (if that's true), but also because of a multitude of reasons.

It faces strong competition from increasingly globalised and competitive Chinese cities. Shen Zhen, Shanghai, Guangzhou, etc etc. These cities are increasingly open and developing fast. They're not only building on hardware, they're also building on software. They may not be as internationally competitive as HK in many areas still, but they sure are catching up fast.

Hong Kong needs to strengthen or develop new comparative advantages so that it won't be replaced so easily.

At the same time, Hong Kong is also facing intense competition from overseas. Singapore is a prime example. Recently, many MNCs moved their headquarters in Asia Pacific from HK to SG, if I remembered correctly from a piece of news I've read recently.

HK even faces strong competition from cities like London, or Paris, in terms of RMB services and investments in RMB. These western financial centres are opening up fast towards the RMB and China, with UK taking the lead and recently declared they're going to make RMB one of their reserve currencies. In the past if someone wants to invest in RMB they'll have to go to HK, but now they could simply go to London or Paris, which they're much more familiar with.

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

airsuperiority said:

trust us, we cant blame China if he's someone we picked. and at least we can get rid of him ourselves. and no one can get any worse than the current guy, who Beijing got for us. Beijing is that bad at this job, look what's happening now. and you don't see protesters going violent at all so far.

and whoever we picked will/should know what stakes hk carries by default. a politician who doesn't know what hk is made of(business)isnt fit to be CE and certainly no way to be elected. we ain't gonna pick a potato for CE just simply we wanna play with the ballot box. too much influences in Hk political scene right now all pro Beijing and not care about our welfare

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That right there is the biggest strength, and the ultimate failure of democracy - it is an incredible effective means of mass control because the people cannot get as worked up about a lousy leader if they elected the guy themselves.

Its great at keeping things calm and preventing violent overthrows of government, but its a lousy lousy way to pick good, effective leaders, as the American Senate and Congress are perfect examples of.

If you think all of HK's problems will suddenly disappear, that whoever you elect will 'get' what 'ordinary' HKers want or that powerful and rich people won't have just as much if not far more power and influence over politics than today, you have been mis-sold your 'democracy' Magic Beans and should consider asking for a refund from CNN/BBC/CIA/MI6

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

plawolf said:

That right there is the biggest strength, and the ultimate failure of democracy - it is an incredible effective means of mass control because the people cannot get as worked up about a lousy leader if they elected the guy themselves.

Its great at keeping things calm and preventing violent overthrows of government, but its a lousy lousy way to pick good, effective leaders, as the American Senate and Congress are perfect examples of.

If you think all of HK's problems will suddenly disappear, that whoever you elect will 'get' what 'ordinary' HKers want or that powerful and rich people won't have just as much if not far more power and influence over politics than today, you have been mis-sold your 'democracy' Magic Beans and should consider asking for a refund from CNN/BBC/CIA/MI6

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there's a lot of reasons and not just business. societal issues such as high housing and all those are a huge /main source of anger we are experiencing. I will say that part is the biggest part

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

Janiz said:

lol, your post is propaganda filled that you shouldapply for a work in the Party. I only missed a line of that Taiwanese saying something like 'Oh, I wish I was born in the mainland China!'

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The party's propaganda people are too stupid for me to work with.

They're some of the dumbest, stupidest, corrupt, most isolated incapable cunts within the party.

I take it as an insult that you suggested this to me. I'm really serious about this.

Anyway, apart of this, I can't see how any part of my writing is "propaganda".

If facts are propaganda, then your definition of propaganda is probably different from mine.

I didn't say the Taiwanese have a terrible life or that they all want to live in the mainland.

But can you deny that Taiwan is not as prosperous economically as it used to be?

Can you deny that Taiwan's college graduates' pay has largely remained stagnating over the years? Do you know that "22k", which referred to the standard staring pay of a college graduate in Taipei has become a catch phrase to on Taiwan's Internet to criticise the government for years? And can you deny that the gap between mainlanders' income and Taiwanese' incomes is quickly closing? Can you deny that today more and more Taiwanese people are starting to work in the mainland instead of purely the other way round decades ago? Can you deny that all these happened after Taiwan's democratization? Can you deny that the Taiwanese people once held high hopes for their presidents but were deeply disappointed and turned angry eventually?

I don't see how these are propaganda?