CV-16, CV-17 STOBAR carrier thread (001/Liaoning, 002/Shandong)

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
They almost certainly didn't have 24 J-15s on the ship when they went to sea, it was probably more like 14-16 J-15s with an additional 6-8 helicopters of different types, based on the various imagery we've had.

For that 3 day period, I believe the division between fixed wing and rotary sorties was 2:1, that is to say over 3 days they did 80 fixed wing and 40 rotary sorties.


Overall it isn't a bad sortie rate for the amount of aircraft they likely had on board, but there should still be room for significant growth.
I believe it was pb who multiple years ago wrote that the top surge sortie rate they could achieve was slightly over 100 per day, but that realistically would be "multiple dozens" which I interpret to be in the 50-60 range.
so the one at the bottom with 20 J-15s is not from this deployment?

I guess I need to look further back.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Correct. I would say it would be quite an impossible feat to do 610 sorties in 2 days on Liaoning!!..
Even on a CVN with 4 cats going non-stop fir 48 hrs would be highly improbable

Ahem...First off 4 cats are seldom used. Usually just three for most launches. I think you know that...

In 1997 USS Nimitz took part in Joint Task Force Exercise 97-2;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

On 20 July 1997, as part of Joint Fleet Exercise 97-2, the USS Nimitz (CVN-68) with Commander, Carrier Group Seven, and Carrier Air Wing Nine (CVW-9) embarked began a simulated high intensity strike campaign. Four days later, they had generated 771 strike sorties and had put 1,336 bombs on target.

In the post-Vietnam era, no other carrier and air wing have generated as much firepower in 98 hours. The surge, as it has come to be known, incorporated all facets of littoral strike warfare—from weapons buildup in the magazines to ordnance delivery.

Carrier Air Wing Nine flew 975 fixed-wing sorties during the four day surge. Figure 1 summarizes the surge by sortie type and day. Naval Strike and Air Warfare Center (NSAWC) defined the terms:

  • A strike sortie is one in which the aircraft penetrates hostile territory carrying ordnance; releases ordnance that enters hostile territory; or conducts electronic attack or offensive counterair operations as part of a strike package in which other strike aircraft satisfy the first criteria. Air interdiction, close air support, and suppression of enemy defenses are examples of strike missions.
  • A strike support sortie is one in which the aircraft performs some function critical to the successful completion of a strike sortie. Tanking, electronic support measures, and combat search and rescue are examples of strike support missions.
  • Other sorties include such missions as airborne early warning, defensive counterair, and functional check (maintenance test) flights.
Forty-two times during the evolution, aircraft that launched on strike missions did not meet the criteria for strike sorties. Figure 1 depicts these as sorties disqualified from strike.

Figure 2 is a composite of several counts. Note that almost 80% of the sorties flown were strike sorties; strike support accounted for another 10%. In turn, F/A-18s flew nearly 80% of the strike sorties. Almost all the targets were within 200 nautical miles of the carrier. These distances, which are not indicative of the maximum striking range of the aircraft, were driven by the location of the carrier operating area in relation to the target ranges. We show the maximum operational strike range that the strike-fighters could have reached, based on typical operational employment and time airborne. Weather in the target areas frequently forced strikes to divert to secondary targets, exercising the full range of command and control. Almost all strike-fighter sorties carried two 500pound or two 1,000-pound bombs (22% were live Mk 82 or Mk 83 bombs that required fuzing—see Figure 2) plus air-to-air weapons. Of the 771 strike sorties, 727 were loaded with bombs; 44 were EA6B electronic support sorties.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Ahem...First off 4 cats are seldom used. Usually just three for most launches. I think you know that...

In 1997 USS Nimitz took part in Joint Task Force Exercise 97-2;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Exactly.. that was the point I was trying to make that even with 4 cats shooting it's improbable to get that many sorties in 48 hrs. For Liaoning it would be simply impossible.
 

kriss

Junior Member
Registered Member
Exactly.. that was the point I was trying to make that even with 4 cats shooting it's improbable to get that many sorties in 48 hrs. For Liaoning it would be simply impossible.
I believe sustained max sortie is more limited by how fast maintenance can rotate aircrafts than capacity of catapults.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
so the one at the bottom with 20 J-15s is not from this deployment?

I guess I need to look further back.

The only pictures we have that are confirmed from this recent deployment (either JMSDF photos or PRC state media footage) show fewer aircraft onboard than that.


The images that by78 posted that you quoted aren't necessarily recent images, they're just nice images in general.
 

Intrepid

Major
Aircraft can be flown to and from the carrier. In this way, missions with many aircraft within reach of alternate airfields will have been practised. Far out on the open sea, fewer aircraft will have been carried.

A single aircraft carrier in a formation always has a handicap. It is usual to have two or more aircraft carriers in order to always have a fallback option for the squadron still in the air in the event of a blocked deck.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
I believe sustained max sortie is more limited by how fast maintenance can rotate aircrafts than capacity of catapults.

Maintenance time can be deferred.

Other factors that affect sortie rates - Mission /Flight time, Turnaround time

You could literally game the stats (not saying anyone did) by taking off, flying 10minutes and landing and calling that a mission. eg. Surge 97, Nimitz generated 770 sorties in 4 days but a lot of these were 100-200nm. Consequently, it does mean that sortie rates for CAS from an adv base/FARP will be naturally higher as seen by real world examples of 5+/- sorties per day during Gulf War(s) and the Israelis during their past wars.

Turnaround time is largely a factor of re-fuel/re-arm and ATC/GTC. You could game this area by limiting to simple/dumb munitions, no canon reloads, limiting mission brief/debrief requirements or double crewing, etc.

Bottom line, sortie rates, like most bullet points, need to be fleshed out with their underlying parameters to be of any use as info.
 

by78

General
Self-explanatory.

52862026811_5475a5271a_k.jpg
52862415620_fc31002e4c_k.jpg
52862190829_a2c7851ff9_k.jpg
 
Top