New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

TK3600

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Does BYD seal get some form of driving assist? With lidar and half decent auto pilot it will be the perfect car of the class.

Also BYD sea lion looks disgusting. Wtf are those massive grills. It is not ICE car there is no need for it. For a car coming after Seal it looks awful for a higher end car.
 

mostonhel

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An unusual potential privacy issue identified by BYD Atto 3 owners online is being addressed within the next 48 hours, says the brand’s Australian distributor.
BYD’s local partner EVDirect said it was aware of the matter, adding “it is being addressed rapidly with Telstra, the SIM provider and data holder,” according to managing director Luke Todd.

“There is no risk of exposure for people obtaining car owners’ details. We anticipate it being resolved within 48 hours. All data and SIM information is held by Telstra securely,” Mr Todd claimed.
This is pretty fast actually.
 

AndrewS

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Registered Member
This would enrage Tesla owners who bought early and only add to their reputation problems.

It's not just that.

Buyers from China and elsewhere bought Teslas because they expected a premium product and brand.

But in China, we can see Tesla is being priced as a mass-market brand comparing to BYD.
There's nothing wrong with a mass-market brand because that is the norm for any country.
The issue is when a brand goes from premium to mass-market

And this pricing will spread to Europe and the USA, because of the competition from Chinese imports and the existing automakers in the US and Europe.

So a warning to anyone who is thinking of buying a Tesla. Prices will be lower and Tesla will be a mass-market brand in the near future globally.

Personally, I think they should have kept Tesla as a premium brand with existing prices, but added an affordable mass-market brand and models to soak up excess production capacity
 

Gloire_bb

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Personally, I think they should have kept Tesla as a premium brand with existing prices, but added an affordable mass-market brand and models to soak up excess production capacity
Teslas aren't really premium inside. You can claim to be minimalist all you want, but interior quality won't change.
But in China, we can see Tesla is being priced as a mass-market brand comparing to BYD.
BYD is still massively lower. Highest end of BYD vehicles is now finally crossing lowest end of Teslas, but that's it.
 

henrik

Senior Member
Registered Member
It's not just that.

Buyers from China and elsewhere bought Teslas because they expected a premium product and brand.

But in China, we can see Tesla is being priced as a mass-market brand comparing to BYD.
There's nothing wrong with a mass-market brand because that is the norm for any country.
The issue is when a brand goes from premium to mass-market

And this pricing will spread to Europe and the USA, because of the competition from Chinese imports and the existing automakers in the US and Europe.

So a warning to anyone who is thinking of buying a Tesla. Prices will be lower and Tesla will be a mass-market brand in the near future globally.

Personally, I think they should have kept Tesla as a premium brand with existing prices, but added an affordable mass-market brand and models to soak up excess production capacity

The mass market model 2 will be released in 2024. But looking at the whole EV market situation, Japanese brands will be crushed over the next couple of years. High quality affordable Chinese EVs and cheap tesla will basically dominate over Japanese vaporware.

Cheaper tesla will mean lower profit margins, and therefore much lower prices for elon musk's tesla stock prices.
 

tphuang

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Electric Viking's take on YangWang
not exactly complete, but catches the major point. BYD is sending a message here with this new brand and electric vehicles are just inherently safer and more capable than their ICE counterparts.

Tesla is down pre-market. On the same day BYD launches Yangwang, Tesla cuts prices. Shows the brand direction. Now that Tesla has lost its brand luster in China, it's going to be tough for them.

Another news is that there are more automakers that are using BYD's DM technology. Given how efficient it is, this could be another area of expansion for BYD.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
MSM is the last to understand anything and only report on it well after the fact.

Japanese cars, at least the mainstream models for mass market ie not Lexus, specialty models within Toyota/ Nissan etc, are bland, designed and engineered with close to zero care for people who actually like cars, even those who appreciate cars only occasionally. Their choices of plastics and even interior colour schemes show them to be the frozen foods of the car world where the majority only want something for sustenance. An A to B that will run for decades. Nevermind that the majority of Japanese cars have played it safe where the European makers (especially French and Italian ones) have dared to venture further with respect to design and occasionally also technology.

The markets has preferred Japanese for the last 30 years due to economy and value for money, then it became slightly better reliability and ease of repair mostly due to production scale and nothing more. The thing is, tastes shift, market preferences shift. You can't keep flogging the same hard, hollow grey plastic interior with the exact same air vent styling (can be done in 10 minutes by a 10 year old at least Toyotas seem to do it this way) and expect the market to continue choosing your products for the next decade.

On the trend of powertrain, yes they got it wrong. Toyota bet wrong on hydrogen fuel cell. The reception of HFC tech hasn't been great but it is still a great piece of technology and will have applications. If it didn't, many other carmakers wouldn't also be developing it.

Out of all the Japanese makers, it seems that only Mazda (outside of the upmarket subbrands Acura and Lexus) seem to understand the importance of design. Toyotas look rubbish. Some look decent enough but their interiors are nearly always garbage to look at garbage to touch garbage to use. But the vast majority either don't care or don't know how to care and appreciate the differences. Increased competition means improved products from Japanese carmakers. The issue then is that of the powertrain. Japanese makers have hedged, at least most of them have. Not sure what Subaru plans on doing because they still aren't anything that special wrt offroad vehicles and their boxer engine layout is a whole lot of meh at the end of the day. Toyota is probably the most well positioned one out of the bunch. At least Toyota has hedged the most, have backup plans and have invested into some new technologies.

The thing is, Chinese carmakers have become fucking interesting. Like properly offering daring ideas and designs. Look at the entire ecosystem of Chinese carmakers. Holy shit. Motorized mechanical dashes with integrated infotainment systems, programmable lights (HiPhi X/Z), four wheel steering to another level using NEV inherent ability to accommodate things like wheel independent electric motors, autonomous driving using a variety of means, daring designs and also conventional ones that are still unique and new (something like the Hongqi EHS9). Everything from GAC's GS8 to NIO's flagship sedans, you can see effort. Now take a look at the latest Toyota SUV or Honda sedan. They're really resting and repeating the same old in a slightly different package. It's stale. German brands offer performance and other qualities the Japanese aren't playing against. Within the economical to entry level premium price brackets, the Japanese carmakers are really running on established reputations. If it were a more immediate market response, Japanese car sales would tank far below Korean ones. Chinese production cars often resemble concept cars in style whereas the Japanese ones tend to feel like white Toyota vans from the early 2000s.

Look at how stylish mainstream Hyundai and KIA models have become. Not to mention home runs like Genesis. While styling is easy to brush up or catch up on, powertrain isn't. The amount of capital invested in the R&D side of Japanese auto industry is roughly going to be equal to China's now but the innovation of Japanese products are currently below the Germans, Chinese, and Korean counterparts. The 1990s was the height of Japanese auto industry in terms of products. Their economic height I conjecture to be the 2010s.

While we can chalk up the majority of car infotainment, connectivity, and EV powertrain innovation to Chinese automakers and supply chains, Japanese ones currently only have the mechanical gearbox for EV (Toyota), hydrogen fuel cell... and that's it. Germans and Italians have performance and dynamics. Styling wise Koreans, Chinese, and Germans are leagues ahead of Japanese automakers but this is a field that's relatively easy to adjust.
 
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tphuang

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btw, Bridget Mccarthy has a great thread on this
it did a much better job explaining things than I did

the focus on safety and the ability for electric control to make U8 safe cannot be understated. This is a major sales pitch and different maker for YangWang series over Benz and others. The new wheel base and e4 platform can do things that other luxury cars simply can't.
 
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