Ukrainian War Developments

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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
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I just read that part, your source is literally 2 paragraphs in a 700 page book, with supposedly 2 sources of rape, only one of which was witnessed. I'm not saying there wasn't sporadic sexual misconduct (i.e., rape) by the soviets to the Chinese civilians, but that is hardly the best example of Russian/Soviet imperialism against China.
Did you go to the library to search specifically for that book or you have the book in your possession because that would be an exemplary way of doing your research.
 

ArmchairAnalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
That map is an example of, for the lack of a better term, coping. US troops weren't in every square inch in Afghanistan or Iraq. A successful control of a region or country is determined by the control of key cities and roads and the size of the enemy's presence in those locations. Deploying military personal and equipment in every single square inch of a region is unnecessary and a waste of resources and time.
I'm not sure whether this has much to do with coping but more controling the battlefield narrative through the visual presentation.
The difference in presentation is definitely very noticable from this Ukrainian map where the Russian controlled areas are a very soft tan only contrasting slightly with the white background to the Russian maps with those massive red-colored Russian controlled areas. Heck even Belarus is red-colored to make it all seem that more impressive.
Looking closely however there isn't actually that big of a difference, both presenting the same military situation on the ground.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Temstar I think that opportunity had long gone, Russia will do a regime change with complete overhaul of Ukraine gov't institution and forgive me for using the word denazification.
Well I liken peace talk to two people bargaining at the market. Initially both the buyer and seller put up ridiculous offers that only suckers will fall for, then both sides give and take as their offers get closer until somewhere in the middle they reach an agreement and a deal is made. How much each side relents from their initial offers depends on how much options they have (other buys/sellers wanting the goods) and/or how badly they want to make the deal.

So far we haven't really seen the Russian side move from their initial position (demilitarise, denazification, neutral country, recognise the 3 regions) but we are starting to see Ukrainian side shift a bit.
 

Synapsid

Just Hatched
Registered Member
I got a feeling that the Russians will develop a long term hatred of Britain that will be almost impossible to mend after this debacle
It dates back to the Great Game and the Crimean war of the 1850s, when British policy makers and tories/conservatives feared an Nascent Imperial Russia gaining access to the Med sea, taking Ottoman territories on the way to warm water port and expanding across Central, South Central Asia and North East Asia/Pacific, threatening British dominions and colonies and its position on the European continent. Also 19th century British liberals intellectuals and leaders like Gladstone saw Tsarist Russia as an reactionary throwback state, illiberal to change, always supressing Eastern/central European uprisings that were seen by Anglophone and French intellectuals and thinkers as politically progressive. Case in point, the supressing of Polish uprising during the 1830s which were descried by English middle class gentry and the Central European uprisings of 1845-9 being crushed by Tsarist troops (Russians even aided Austria-Hungry, its nominal Habsburg rival, in crushing its Mgyar/Hungarian nationalist revolt). All of this offended British political sensibilities, which fed into the 18th-19th British/French/German enlightenment thinkers narrative about Russia being a European outliner that had a distinctly non-European oriental political culture, a society more akin to the Oriental despotates of the East, a hydraulic state with autocratic tendencies that lacked the civic cultures of the Catholic/Protestant/Christian west due its political inheritance from the Golden Horde. These narratives also feed into racialist thinkers of the West about Russia being more backward compared to NW Europe due its "Oriental" nature and anything progressive or 'European' like about Russia such Peter the Great's reforms was sue to German aristocratic elite management or seeping Western European influence (remember that this was a period of intense Scientific racism, when race was viewed as the core essential ingredient of societal development, a period were Hubert Spencer's Social Darwanism was gaining ground in political thinking). These types of generalisations and stereotypes were spoon fed into the British public constantly by the British media/jingoistic yellow press tabloids from the Victorian Era onwards (e.g. "Russian navy confuses British trawlers off Devon for JAPANESE NAVY SHIPS") and was only put on hold after the triple Entente, Tsar Nicolas marriage and WW1 but resumed again with the rise of the Bolsheviks during the 20s and 30s (only to be temp halted against during WW") and the post war tensions of the Cold War.

As a person in Britain, its safe to say that the UK is by far the most Russophobic country in Europe. Its strange, considering Britain was never occupied or invaded by any Eastern European (let alone Russian) power, unlike the more understandable case for Germany, Finland or Poland who paradoxically seem more sane to me about issues surrounding than the UK. Anti Russian sentiment is just a part of mainstream political and even public discourse here, a sentiment that was amplified amongst Pro-EU/Remainers Brits after Brexit since many of them believe (esp. after following US news networks like CNN, MSBC, Rachael Meadow etc after Trumps election) that Brexit was the end-result of a massive Russian disinformation/influence campaign to split up the Atlantic alliance and disrupt EU unity in the mainland. This is why you see mass hysteria now on British twitter livefeeds amongst UK liberals about Nigel Farage and other prominent Brexit figures supposedly being in cohots with Russia and accusing them of being pro Putin puppets or former "useful idiots" of various Russian intelligence agencies. Its also one of the reasons why Renmainers/Liberal-Democrats/Labour/Anti-Tories type of Brits, who were typically anti-overseas intervention conflicts (protesting Iraq War by the millions in London on the even of Bush-Blair invasion from Kuwait, were against the NATO led Libya intervention) are now crying for No-fly zones to be established over western Ukraine or sharing tweets of NLAWs carrying Ukrainian troops with corney posts like "So proud we are doing out part", or sharing pics of destroyed T-72B2 with emoji or having Ukrainian flags on the social media profiles and promoting volunteers to go to the conflict zones. Liz, the Foreign Sec, endorsed it but was forced to backtrack by Boris thankfully (probably the only reasonable he thing he has done since being Prime Minister)
I got a feeling that the Russians will develop a long term hatred of Britain that will be almost impossible to mend after this debacle.
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
Japan almost certainly will go nuclear. South Korea as well. But neither country has any interest in conquest. If they did they'd already be nuclear. Even together they wouldn't be a "mortal threat" to China. The notion that Ukraine is or ever could be a "mortal threat" to Russia is ridiculous.
If it's not a waste of more time to reply to such continuing severe distortions:

1) You apparently approve of Japan amending its 'pacifist' Constitution in order to become a major nuclear power
to support the USA's (not yet declared) war upon China. That would be a real 'Krieg mit Hass'.

2) When I wrote that Japan having the potential to become a 'mortal threat' militarily to China, I wrote nothing
about Japan (again) attempting to invade and conquer China. That's your 'strawman' that you set up to attack.
(One reason is that Japan does not have Korea as a staging area from where to launch any invasion of China.)
My point was simply that Japan has the potential to make enough nuclear weapons to destroy China, though
I doubt that Japan (even if incited by the USA) would ever decide to take that suicidal action.

3) You apparently insinuate that, in contrast to peace-loving Japan and South Korea, China has interests,
if not plans, to invade and conquer South Korea or Japan. If you believe that, then I would advise you that
overdosing on Sinophobic propaganda is not good for your mental health, though your lack of it would
be far from conspicuous in the USA (which tends to embrace irrational beliefs about China).

4) I wrote nothing about a post-war Ukraine being a 'mortal threat' to Russia.
Don't put others' words into my mouth.

I have noticed that you seem obsessed about the alleged threat that the DPRK (with its tiny nuclear arsenal)
poses to the USA. Why is that? Do you believe that the DPRK's planning to invade and conquer the USA?
Or do you believe that the DPRK's eager to launch a suicidal nuclear first strike against the USA?
 

panzerfeist1

Junior Member
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MOSCOW, March 7. /TASS/. The Ukrainian Security Forces and the nationalist Azov battalion are planning to blow up a reactor at the National Research Center of the Kharkov Institute of Physics and Technology and accuse the Russian Armed Forces of launching projectiles at an experimental nuclear reactor, says Russia’s Defense Ministry on Monday.

"The Security Forces of Ukraine along with the militants of the Azov battalion are plotting a provocation with possible radioactive contamination of the area near the city of Kharkov. Nationalists mined a reactor at an experimental nuclear system located at the [National Research Center of] Kharkov Institute of Physics and Technology. The Ukrainian military and the Azov battalion militants are planning to blow up the reactor and accuse the Russian Armed Forces of allegedly launching a missile strike on an experimental nuclear system," the statement says.

The Russian Defense Ministry noted that "on March 6, foreign journalists arrived in Kharkov to register the consequences of the provocation, followed by accusing Russia of creating an environmental disaster.".
 

windsclouds2030

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MOSCOW, March 7. /TASS/. The Ukrainian Security Forces and the nationalist Azov battalion are planning to blow up a reactor at the National Research Center of the Kharkov Institute of Physics and Technology and accuse the Russian Armed Forces of launching projectiles at an experimental nuclear reactor, says Russia’s Defense Ministry on Monday.

"The Security Forces of Ukraine along with the militants of the Azov battalion are plotting a provocation with possible radioactive contamination of the area near the city of Kharkov. Nationalists mined a reactor at an experimental nuclear system located at the [National Research Center of] Kharkov Institute of Physics and Technology. The Ukrainian military and the Azov battalion militants are planning to blow up the reactor and accuse the Russian Armed Forces of allegedly launching a missile strike on an experimental nuclear system," the statement says.

The Russian Defense Ministry noted that "on March 6, foreign journalists arrived in Kharkov to register the consequences of the provocation, followed by accusing Russia of creating an environmental disaster.".
Russian Ministry of Defense — “Ukraine’s SBU along with Azov have booby trapped a nuclear reactor at Kharkov Institute of Physics and plan to blow it up & accuse Russia of carrying out a missile strike onto it.”

Here we go:
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(Russian MoD posted the above info hours ago, we posted it late)



СБУ и боевики батальона "Азов" планируют подорвать реактор в Харьковском физико-техническом институте и обвинить Вооруженные силы России в нанесении ракетного удара по экспериментальной ядерной установке, сообщили в Минобороны РФ:
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Translated from Russian by Google
The SBU and Azov battalion militants are planning to blow up a reactor at the Kharkiv Institute of Physics and Technology and accuse the Russian Armed Forces of launching a missile attack on an experimental nuclear facility, the Russian Defense Ministry said:
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Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
I just read that part, your source is literally 2 paragraphs in a 700 page book, with supposedly 2 sources of rape, only one of which was witnessed. I'm not saying there wasn't sporadic sexual misconduct (i.e., rape) by the soviets to the Chinese civilians, but that is hardly the best example of Russian/Soviet imperialism against China.
You demanded that I--on very short notice--give you a list of published sources (presumably in English) on a
obscure historical subject (Soviet war crimes in China) about which extremely few Americans or Britons would care.
I did the best that I could from memory. I don't have Max Hastings's book in front of me.

You apparently doubt that Soviet soldiers could have raped more than a very few, at most, Chinese women
because one history book devotes only a small part of it to discussing it. Even if there were ample records
(miraculously surviving from 1945 in war-torn China) and Max Hastings could read Chinese, then what publisher
in the UK or USA would allow him to write many pages describing Soviet soldiers' rapes of Chinese women?
How many Anglophone readers would care?

"They witnessed their share of the orgy of rape and destruction which overtook Manchuria."
--Max Hastings

Does 'the orgy of rape' sound like it refers to only a few victims?

Speaking of surviving written records, an elderly relative of mine (who was born in China during the war) has
no written record of her own birth. So would you conclude that she must never have been alive?

Having worked with sexual assault victims, I know that experiences of rape or sexual assault are much
more common than what's officially reported, let alone those few officially acknowledged to be crimes.
Most victims never report the crimes against them. But many people (particularly men) like to act as if
the official reports or even official convictions must be the upper bound on the number of crimes.

In _The Last Battle_ Cornelius Ryan spent only several out of almost 600 pages in describing the Soviet soldiers'
rapes of German women and girls in 1945 Berlin. So would you conclude that such rapes must have been rare?
On the contrary, nearly all historians outside Russia (this subject tends to get censored in Russia) concur that
rape was a common female experience in Berlin. As a sample, a young German actress reported that 14 out
of the 17 women in her apartment building were raped within a few days of the arrival of Soviet soldiers.

Ich bin eine Berlinerin.
 
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