Ukrainian War Developments

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Helius

Senior Member
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These seized computers are very hard to verify real or not. They looked like planted, not even a single speck of dust on the laptop screen or attached power supply to suggest it was really used. This is not a convincing evidence.
You could be right. NATO-labelled laptops is a big deal after all.

I guess they have no choice but to rely only on captured NATO rocket launchers to further their case instead.
 
The nature and tone of above comment rather falls on the captious end of all possible spectrum.
Russia, as a great power, wouldn't expect free handouts in wide range of areas, except maybe in humanitarian aids, or things of that nature, which normally occurs from time to time, in a normal state to state relations showing goodwill and solidarity. If anybody expects Russia to even want free handouts, then that's their pure conjecture, nothing to do with Russia itself.
China already declared it will be normal commercial and trade relations as usual moving forward, Western sanctions don't apply to Sino-Russian sovereign relations. Western sanctions are not UN approved, therefore not legal under any international laws. That's the most daring tea bagging of China down the collective Western throats, you can even hear them old White men choking and gagging in those corridors of Western powers.

While it may be obvious to you that normal commercial and trade relations is the only path forward - that is not obvious to many members calling for one of either two extremes:
  1. Take advantage of the situation to extract as many benefits from Russia at the current time as possible
  2. Provide direct financial / economic aid
Both of which are not going to be in China's long-term interests.

Not only is Russia a great power - it is a former superpower still holding on to delusions of grandeur. Russia is never going to accept being a junior partner in a Sino-Russian partnership. While both nations benefit today from partnership and cooperation in many arenas, and both have a shared interest in standing up against US led imperialism, their relationship should be recognized for what it is rather than what it is not.

Also, Chinese should not forget all that Imperial Russia and the USSR have taken from China in the past 200 years. If the USSR had their way, China wouldn't have a Xinjiang problem today because Xinjiang would not even be Chinese, just like Outer Mongolia and Outer Manchuria.

What do you imagine is going to happen? Is Europe going to tell Russia, "You know what, China's just that dangerous and we need your help at all costs. Take Ukraine, take the Baltics, you want Poland? Let's throw that in too. Take half of Germany as well, just like old times." The "partnership of convenience" was how things stood 20 years ago. Today, China and Russia might as well be Siamese twins.

That is obviously not a realistic scenario. Sino-Russian relations did not advance to the point where it can be deemed a strategic partnership until 2014.

Sino-Ruso relationship is defined by China as 新时代全面战略协作伙伴关系, Full spectrum strategic "collaboration" partnership. It is the highest bilateral relationship in China's diplomacy. I don't know about the translation of 协作 to collaboration is accurate in English or not. But in Chinese definition it is a closer and fuller cooperation that involves one party to assist the other party's strategic objective and vis versa.

It is an alliance without the word "alliance". So in essence Russia and China are strategic allies. I am confident that the Chinese leadership knows what they are doing, so is the Russian leadership, and they are well aware of the histories.

What was the term used to define Sino-Soviet cooperation and friendship?

China is the current ascendant superpower. Russia is a declining former superpower. Superpower's do not have peer-to-peer strategic partnerships. None of the Western European nations are a strategic ally of the US - they are vassals, either willingly or through coercion/pressure. As the power differential between China and Russia continues to grow at an ever-increasing rate, does anyone believe Russia will just settle down for being China's vassal? At best, Russia would end up being a neutral party, perhaps the leader of some sort of new Non-Aligned Movement seeking to get the most economic benefits it could from both sides.

I've realized that the topic of long-term Sino-Russian relations is crossing over into being, "off-topic," - so this is the last post I will make on this topic.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Russia is good to distract US/NATO and reduce pressure on China, but China can defend itself with or without Russia. China has nuclear weapons and soon #1 economy on earth, so US/NATO will not rob jackshit from China. If anything, Russia needs China way more than vice-versa.
Maybe China need Russia to rob the hell out of any European Countries who want to remain the die-hard US poppets? After all, China can not reach Lithuania without Russia, for a start. Those countries in Europe who sponsored and voted for the "Xinjiang" non-sense need a whip on their asses so they know they need sympathy of a big power on the other side of the continent. China would be glad that Russia give them a lesson.
 
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Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
Oh well ... the former genius has spoken again! ... sometimes it's really not that hard to understand why the West is seen so much critically all over the world! o_O

There was a real 'false flag' incident at the start of Operation Barbarossa, the Axis invasion of the USSR.
On 22 June 1941, Romanian forces and German forces from Romania invaded the USSR (which included territory
that the USSR had recently seized from Romania). Hungary, which shared no border with USSR, was not yet involved.

Having a bitter dispute (which lingers to this day) over Transylvania, the Romanians and Hungarians hated each other.
Romania launched a 'false flag' operation to help draw Hungary into the war against the USSR.
Pretending that they were Soviet, Romanian aircraft bombed a town in Hungary, killing some civilians.
The Romanians dropped an intentionally unexploded bomb with Russian markings for the Hungarians to find.
Then Hungary declared war upon the USSR.
 

Phead128

Major
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Moderator - World Affairs
This isn't a video game you play on hard mode to show how 133t you are.
My post is responding to slippery-slope fallacy: "US/NATO will rob Trillions from China if Russia fails." Explain how that is even remotely possible? Even Qing-era, when Qing China has zero allies, there was no "robbery of Trillions" and Qing is far weaker than modern-day PRC. You have to respond to my post in context, not take it out of context.
Russia is an important component of the new bloc China's putting together.
My posts did not dispute this. I mentioned that Russia is useful to distract/deflect/divert US/NATO attention/containment effort against China. Problem? China is not relying on Kuznetsov to save the day in Taiwan straits or SCS crisis, if that is type of relationship you are insinuating...
The UK needs the US way more than vice-versa,
Instead of UK-US relationship, a better example would be Pakistan-China relationship, there is a shared common enemy (India), but unlike the UK-US relationship, there is no mutual defense pact, no shared ideology, ethno-linguistic, heritage/culture, or history. So UK-US relationship is not comparable to China-Russia relationship. UK-US is like Father-Son blood relations, where China-Russia is at best similar to China-Pakistan relationship, but relatively more co-equal in nature (atleast for now).
can defend itself far more easily without the UK than China can without Russia, is that a reason for the US to trash its alliance with the UK?
  • a) China and Russia do not have a mutual defense treaty or formal treaty alliance.
  • b) China-Pakistan relationship is a better proximate to China-Russia relationship than the US-UK relationship.
  • c) Pakistan needs China far more than China needs Pakistan, this is also true.
  • d) US-UK have shared common enemy (Russia/China), and so does China-Pakistan have a common enemy (India) and same with China-Russia a common enemy (US), but the difference is that US-UK actually has a formal alliance, whereas China-Pakistan and China-Russia does not have a formal alliance, much less shared ideology, culture, language, history. So please atleast pick a better comparator.

And finally, what is wrong with this statement: "China needs Russia to counter/divert/deflect/distract US/NATO containment efforts against China. But even if Russia didn't exist, US/NATO cannot rob trillions from China." that I originally posted?
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Alexander Mercouris latest video. He said the condition in Mariupol for the civilian population is terrible based on the news/report he had (Idk source). Apparently, some reports say there is no water or electricity alongside depleting food supplies that may last only a couple days (Alex said 1-2 days).
It's true, Mariupol has been without power (and therefore without water or internet) since early last week. As such for many days now its an information black hole with no ways of telling what's happening inside, besides the occasional photo from outside the city showing parts of it burning.

Kharkiv is headed in that direction too. It's taken so much fire that information coming out of it has slowed down to a trickle.
 

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
Maybe China need Russia to rob the hell out of any European Countries who want to remain the die-hard US poppets? After all, China can not reach Lithuania without Russia, for a start.
there is immigration of Global South to Europe. ultimately the interests of Global South and Europe will converge.
thats the reason Turkey is still attached to Europe and Turkey want to drag rest of Central Asia to this system.
Iran will be in similar situation. India is already there.
Chinese are not attracting this scale of immigration nor it can afford global military bases to support its trade. China can produce more but still it cannot make alot of complex products 100% domestically. when US was becoming superpower it had practically 100% control over complex products with full energy independence. China need Russia in various ways to divide this Global south from North.

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SanWenYu

Captain
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Is the Ukrainian government crazy? Or are the Russians taking inspiration from Colin Powell's tiny vial of white powder? I double checked the calendar and confirmed it's still 3 weeks til April 1.

"Russian media outlets, including TASS, InterFax and others, citing anonymous sources, report that Ukraine is trying to make plutonium based dirty bombs in a place within Chernobyl."

"The reports also claim that Ukraine started researching on nuclear weapons immediately after the country officially gave up its disposal of nuclear weapons from Soviet Union. For more than 20 years, Ukraine has been working on projects to develop its own nuclear weapons and missles (with nuclear warheads)."

"To speed up the development, Ukraine sought the required plutonium materials from abroad in the early days of the projects. Based on the information on hand, it is believed that the US has been involved and transferred the (plutonium) materials to its ally." [ Not sure if this "ally" of the US is Ukraine. -- my notes ]

3月6日,俄罗斯塔斯社、国际文传电讯社、俄新网等多家主要俄媒援引消息人士的话称,乌克兰正在切尔诺贝利一座废弃的核电设施研发核武器。该设施本在2000年就已停止发电。俄媒称,乌克兰正在制造一种以钚(Pu)为基础的“脏弹”。
俄媒报道称,从成为无核国家之后,乌克兰就立刻开始了核武研发。二十多年来,基辅一直在实施核武器和(核)导弹的计划,并一直在为制造自己的核武器创造所有必要条件。
此外,乌克兰为加快这一研发进程,初期就从国外获得了所需质量的钚。根据现有信息,美国已经将这些材料转让给其盟友。有理由相信,这其中并非没有华盛顿的参与。

A screenshot of the report (in Russian) on TASS:

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Found this
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tphuang

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Russia is good to distract US/NATO and reduce pressure on China, but China can defend itself with or without Russia. China has nuclear weapons and soon #1 economy on earth, so US/NATO will not rob jackshit from China. If anything, Russia needs China way more than vice-versa.

Completely agreed, people have gone out of their mind in paranoia. The current us political system is far too fractured to come up with coherent evil scheme to destroy china. China will be fine as long as it continues to secure it's domestic supply chain. Western democracies will be fine too.

Russian invading Ukraine has taken some pressure off china in the short term. China can take this time to continue to secure it's supply chain and grow it's economy.

Develop better relationship with everyone, including Russia. The longer covid is behind us, the more positive other countries will be toward china.
 
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