Self Propelled Gun/Rocket Launcher

[pendragon]

75cm between the impact and aiming points.
View attachment 80884

OK, definetily nice looking piece of ordonance and quite usefull in support of light & fast moving forces ! Bat as of regarding to precision; at what distance from launch?

 

[taxiya]

OK, definetily nice looking piece of ordonance and quite usefull in support of light & fast moving forces ! Bat as of regarding to precision; at what distance from launch?

does the distance really matter? Guided munition does not fly exactly ballistic, so long as the initial vector input is accurate, the end accuracy is determined by the guidance system, in this case I guess Beidou. For example, a cruise missile guided by GPS has an accuracy within 5 meters, it does not matter if it is launched 2000km or 200km away. Although the mortar round does not have its own motor, but its maximum range is within 10km, so the manoeuvring thrusters can regulate the range by adjust its trajectory.

 

[broadsword]

German Mortar Shells HE 120mm weigh 13.1 KG without the propellant, the propellant weights up to 1.85 KG and the loader must lift every shell from groundlevel to the buzzle which usually stands at 1.45 m height in a firing position. Do that 5 years frequently that is and your back is screwed

Plus in an annahilate order it gets to like 10 RPM. but after that the mortar must cool down (it is a safety procedure to minize accidents, I dont know how many rounds one may fire before anything happens tho. sustained was like 5 RPM IIRC)

13.1kg does not seem heavy. Like meh in the gym, and it's not continuously for an hour. But has there been any kind of back injury reported by artillery men?

 

[broadsword]

TBh, German enlisted men are not really the fittest anymore, the officers too, are not physically fit ( would say 40% are paperwork guys).
Most of the physical Training gets substituted with seminaries about sexual harassment prevention and how to detect a racist, yadayadayada. By no means is this something Bad but the Focus in serving has been devisted alot.


German state is fully occupied with gender, racism and climate Change. No joke. And it translated also Into the Military.

Dont know about mortarmen, but actual 155mm loaders do seem to have backproblems but that is a whole different Story.

Weight of a 155mm M107 HE shell is 43.2 kg. Big difference.

 

[badoc]

TBh, German enlisted men are not really the fittest anymore, the officers too, are not physically fit ( would say 40% are paperwork guys).
Most of the physical Training gets substituted with seminaries about sexual harassment prevention and how to detect a racist, yadayadayada. By no means is this something Bad but the Focus in serving has been devisted alot.


German state is fully occupied with gender, racism and climate Change. No joke. And it translated also Into the Military.

Dont know about mortarmen, but actual 155mm loaders do seem to have backproblems but that is a whole different Story.

120mm mortars not as bad as the towed 155mm gun without hydraulic legs.
Back breaking indeed.
I have done training for both in the 70s, and I believe I got my back and leg problems from that.
As well as hearing problems.
.

 

[supersnoop]

120mm mortars not as bad as the towed 155mm gun without hydraulic legs.
Back breaking indeed.
I have done training for both in the 70s, and I believe I got my back and leg problems from that.
As well as hearing problems.
.

120mm NATO mortar standard SOP is 2 handed drop into the muzzle I believe). Even though 13 Kg is not particularly heavy, it can be difficult because you are almost doing kettlebell burpees during a fire mission since the mortar is a high angle weapon. Combined with the worrying about blowing your hands off, it is not always easy.

Listening to older gunners, a lot less attention was paid to hearing protection, as it wasn't SOP to wear earmuffs. Then when it was SOP, it wasn't "macho" to wear them. Finally people realized it's better not to be deaf, lol.

I was told (no formal sources for this) that the number 1 injury claim for artillery veterans in Canada is knee and leg injury. Most artillery is towed pieces (and only towed at this point). I don't know what you were using for gun tractor, but in Canada it was just a standard utility truck. Most people got injured either from repetitive stress from jumping out of the tailgate, or slips/falls.

Back to the 120mm loading function of the vehicle, as I mentioned, it is a good safety feature. By lowering the angle at which the round is loaded, you are lowering the strain on the shoulders. This can lessen the number of repetitive strain injuries. With the auto launching, you also lower the likelihood of catastrophic injury (hands being lost). Also a minor economic benefit of less claims and compensation.

Looks like this was adapted from civilian manufacturing equipment with the control panel box and emergency stop button. I hope that the human factors engineering was a serious consideration in the design of the system. "Soldiers need to be tough" shouldn't be confused with "making life unnecessarily difficult or uncomfortable". Great to have tough soldiers, not so great to see the barracks looking like a US civil war re-enactment.

 

[badoc]

120mm NATO mortar standard SOP is 2 handed drop into the muzzle I believe). Even though 13 Kg is not particularly heavy, it can be difficult because you are almost doing kettlebell burpees during a fire mission since the mortar is a high angle weapon. Combined with the worrying about blowing your hands off, it is not always easy.

Listening to older gunners, a lot less attention was paid to hearing protection, as it wasn't SOP to wear earmuffs. Then when it was SOP, it wasn't "macho" to wear them. Finally people realized it's better not to be deaf, lol.

I was told (no formal sources for this) that the number 1 injury claim for artillery veterans in Canada is knee and leg injury. Most artillery is towed pieces (and only towed at this point). I don't know what you were using for gun tractor, but in Canada it was just a standard utility truck. Most people got injured either from repetitive stress from jumping out of the tailgate, or slips/falls.

Back to the 120mm loading function of the vehicle, as I mentioned, it is a good safety feature. By lowering the angle at which the round is loaded, you are lowering the strain on the shoulders. This can lessen the number of repetitive strain injuries. With the auto launching, you also lower the likelihood of catastrophic injury (hands being lost). Also a minor economic benefit of less claims and compensation.

Looks like this was adapted from civilian manufacturing equipment with the control panel box and emergency stop button. I hope that the human factors engineering was a serious consideration in the design of the system. "Soldiers need to be tough" shouldn't be confused with "making life unnecessarily difficult or uncomfortable". Great to have tough soldiers, not so great to see the barracks looking like a US civil war re-enactment.

I don't remember anyone fearing having their hands blown off, and the mortar bombs are not that heavy to load.
Maybe because only the taller were selected, unlike the Engineers and Armored.
We didn't get to wear ear muffs was because there were not enough to go around and so the STUPID macho thing to do was everyone not wearing.

It was in the 70s, and our 155mm gun then was using a Mercedes 10 tonner truck to tow.
It was opening the legs that was back breaking.

Injury from 120mm mortar was because we had a GENIUS who thought we could outdo the Israelis.
We manpacked the 120mm mortar in a similar way to the 81mm mortar.
The 120mm mortar barrel alone is 90kg.
The GENIUS had us repeatedly carry the mortar up the hill.
The GENIUS supposed we would WAVE IT AT OUR ENEMY WITHOUT ANY BOMBS, hopefully scaring our enemy who will fall and freeze to death in the freezing river below.

Carrying 100 mortar bombs would have needed 50 persons, so that is why no bombs.
.

 

[pendragon]

I don't remember anyone fearing having their hands blown off, and the mortar bombs are not that heavy to load.
Maybe because only the taller were selected, unlike the Engineers and Armored.
We didn't get to wear ear muffs was because there were not enough to go around and so the STUPID macho thing to do was everyone not wearing.

It was in the 70s, and our 155mm gun then was using a Mercedes 10 tonner truck to tow.
It was opening the legs that was back breaking.

Injury from 120mm mortar was because we had a GENIUS who thought we could outdo the Israelis.
We manpacked the 120mm mortar in a similar way to the 81mm mortar.
The 120mm mortar barrel alone is 90kg.
The GENIUS had us repeatedly carry the mortar up the hill.
The GENIUS supposed we would WAVE IT AT OUR ENEMY WITHOUT ANY BOMBS, hopefully scaring our enemy who will fall and freeze to death in the freezing river below.

Carrying 100 mortar bombs would have needed 50 persons, so that is why no bombs.
.

definetely 70 'ties and 80's mentality in westeren armys. Have similar experience with apc (amx13) drinving; all macho and no brains!

 

[sndef888]

Self-propelled MLRS on the same chassis as the PCL-161 self-propelled gun.

Seems like they are really loving the new PCL-161/171/181 platform, deploying them all over the place and even making new iterations like this one

I wonder why we don't see more of such all in one wheeled artillery around the world. PCL-181 especially seems incredibly compact for a 155mm gun

 

[by78]

Harbin First Machinery Building Group reports that it has for the first time achieved a production rate of three per day for a certain 155mm self-propelled howitzer. They look like PLZ-05s.