American Economics Thread

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
combustion cars will likely be around for not only 20 but likely indefinitely.

They might switch to more renewable fuels, have a hybrid motor or even use fuel cells, but this is a fundamental fact:
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.

You cannot run wheeled freight transport on battery because batteries are too heavy and eat into cargo payload. As comparison: a Toyota Corolla has essentially negligible gas tank weight (typically ~50 kg).

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A typical diesel truck can get up to
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. So they can get a range of up to 3000 miles on 1 fuel tank. This is reasonable for a cross country truck route as is common in the US and in China.

The maximum
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So a diesel truck takes up only 2.6% of total mass.
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. So to meet the limits, you can have a 17500 kg truck + 1000 kg fuel carrying 21500 kg cargo.

How much does a battery weigh?
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to travel 260 miles. To travel the same 3000 mile distance as the diesel truck, assuming linear scaling (not true, more battery means more power needed to just drive the battery around) you need 12 batteries or 5760 kg. So you have 17500 kg truck + 5760 kg fuel carrying 16740 kg cargo.

The diesel truck has 30% higher payload at equal range thus 30% lower cost.
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while
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on a 1x battery. For a truck 12x battery it'll take 360 minutes for 200 miles. To get a full charge it will take 4000 minutes of fast charging - 3 full days of charging.

So in the same time it takes to drive 1 load 3000 miles, and recharge for 3 days, the diesel truck already made 2 trips.

Now with just a few change - diesel truck convert to combustion powered IEP-hybrid like a ship for instance - you can get something like 20-30 mpg with the same energy storage advantage of chemical fuel. It destroys battery truck in every way.
@FairAndUnbiased Yup and the infrastructure for EV will take another decade just to set up, Bro I was amaze of how well the 3 yes you read it right 3 cylinder turbo engine run and its gas mileage, the salesman said it was a VOLVO engine, couple with high tech features and elegant design, they got the Japanese and Koreans cars beat in Price, design and tech a lot of tech feature. Bro diesel is cheap here, but most of the Japanese and Koreans SUV are heavy and its diesel engine an outdated design. If we compare the Geely coolray with my Toyota SUV the fuel consumption is the same but the riding comfort is not. What I read from YT and Car magazine is that established Car manufacturer are not only afraid of Tesla but of Chinese ICE Car. They had a huge legacy cost and they are facing a two front onslaught.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
@FairAndUnbiased Yup and the infrastructure for EV will take another decade just to set up, Bro I was amaze of how well the 3 yes you read it right 3 cylinder turbo engine run and its gas mileage, the salesman said it was a VOLVO engine, couple with high tech features and elegant design, they got the Japanese and Koreans cars beat in Price, design and tech a lot of tech feature. Bro diesel is cheap here, but most of the Japanese and Koreans SUV are heavy and its diesel engine an outdated design. If we compare the Geely coolray with my Toyota SUV the fuel consumption is the same but the riding comfort is not. What I read from YT and Car magazine is that established Car manufacturer are not only afraid of Tesla but of Chinese ICE Car. They had a huge legacy cost and they are facing a two front onslaught.
Honestly, I am thinking about buying a new car in a few years, and it most likely would be an EV.


Anyone who is asking me about buying a new car I tell him the same thing. Go for EVs because the Gov will tax you to high heaven in a few years because you are polluting.
Plus EVs have very low maintenance costs.

Win-win-win for the customer, Gov, and climate
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Honestly, I am thinking about buying a new car in a few years, and it most likely would be an EV.


Anyone who is asking me about buying a new car I tell him the same thing. Go for EVs because the Gov will tax you to high heaven in a few years because you are polluting.
Plus EVs have very low maintenance costs.

Win-win-win for the customer, Gov, and climate

I am buying a hybrid combustion EV. It has 99% of the benefits of battery EV, even with government subsidy, and consumes no fuel when driving day to day.

But it also has 99% of the benefits of combustion cars such as long range, literally no downside compared to combustion cars.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Overbom @FairAndUnbiased bro that is a problem living in a third world country 1) we had no choice but to buy an ICE car 2) lack of EV infrastructure 3) maintenance cost 4) gov't regulation. We had at the moment the 2nd highest electric cost in Asia so switching to EV with the standard of living of most middle class are not viable.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Overbom @FairAndUnbiased bro that is a problem living in a third world country 1) we had no choice but to buy an ICE car 2) lack of EV infrastructure 3) maintenance cost 4) gov't regulation. We had at the moment the 2nd highest electric cost in Asia so switching to EV with the standard of living of most middle class are not viable.
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So does
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It will double your fuel efficiency, you can charge it like an EV, but it has every advantage of gas cars like long range. The only reason to not buy a hybrid is because it is not as 'fun' as a gas car or 'green' as a battery.

But I evaluate everything from a cold hard numbers engineering perspective. From what I see, hybrids are simply the most financially and environmentally friendly of all cars, moreso than even battery (because you need more minerals mined with heavy duty trucks with almost no fuel efficiency for them while hybrids use cheaper and smaller batteries) while having cost and performance equal to combustion.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Overbom @FairAndUnbiased bro that is a problem living in a third world country 1) we had no choice but to buy an ICE car 2) lack of EV infrastructure 3) maintenance cost 4) gov't regulation. We had at the moment the 2nd highest electric cost in Asia so switching to EV with the standard of living of most middle class are not viable.
China is already producing some low cost EVs. In a few years when the Chinese monstrous EV manufacturing is at its peak then the whole world will be flooded with cheap EVs.

If (big if..) the Gov in Philippines is smart then they should lower tariffs and allow cheap Chinese EVs to enter the market. And dont worry, they will also build out their own charging infrastructure

However, as you said, it is important for the Gov to take action. Lower tariffs, incentives for EVs, incentives for building chargers, build more energy producing plants etc

This takes some money, so the Gov should hold tight that Chinese thigh and get benefits ;)
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
China is already producing some low cost EVs. In a few years when the Chinese monstrous EV manufacturing is at its peak then the whole world will be flooded with EVs.

If (big if..) the Gov in Philippines is smart then they should lower tariffs and allow cheap Chinese EVs to enter the market. And dont worry, they will also build out their own charging infrastructure

However, as you said, it is important for the Gov to take action. Lower tariffs, incentives for EVs, incentives for building chargers, build more energy producing plants etc

This takes some money, so the Gov should hold tight that Chinese thigh and get benefits ;)
Phillipines should just import more BYD, Geely, etc.

@ansy1968 if you like SUVs check out the
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, which is very high mileage by US standards and much better than combustion sedans. Yes, an SUV, that is more efficient than combustion sedans. It does not compromise in performance, it drives exactly like a gas car. But it also has 80 km battery range so if you commute, you use 0 gas, it is just like electric vehicle for everyday use, but like gas car for long distance.
 

horse

Major
Registered Member
Yup and the infrastructure for EV will take another decade just to set up,

Yeah brother, that EV infrastructure will take some time, but it could be moving fast in some parts of the world.

There is no doubt the electric car, the ICE car is going close to being obsolete.

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The above news is 2 years old. When one of the seven sisters, British Petroleum is building charging stations, we know it is over for the ICE car.
 

9dashline

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yeah brother, that EV infrastructure will take some time, but it could be moving fast in some parts of the world.

There is no doubt the electric car, the ICE car is going close to being obsolete.

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The above news is 2 years old. When one of the seven sisters, British Petroleum is building charging stations, we know it is over for the ICE car.
In the US it took 5 years just to implement adoption of EMV chip on plastic cards, for majority of gas stations to be converted to support EV infrastructure will take minimum 10 to 15 years...

Heck US was supposed to switch to ipv6 from ipv4 back in 2012, now nearly a decade later adoption hasnt even hit 50%

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