Ladakh Flash Point

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twineedle

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You posted an irrelevant, out-of-date satellite photo from a BJP IT cell bot. I find it funny that you spam meaningless photos from satellites your country doesn't own and could never hope to build.

Because China has total control over the situation and will continue to impose its dominance and inflict humiliation upon humiliation until India loses every last shred of delusion about its place in the world.
If you have any better satellite photos you are welcome to post them.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
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So anyone knows why the talks failed? Did India opened its mouth and demanded the PLA to straight up leave from their lands?

Because, however Indian wishes China to retreat, owning land is permanent. So what is India offering to China in order for it to retreat?

Trade is already up, and in the end, money comes and go, while land will stay forever. Unless India offers something in equal value to permanently owning land, I dont see the PLA disengaging anytime soon.

Boots on the ground > everthing else.

Failed because India didn't want to leave the rest of their positions inside the disputed area. China previously had positions in Pangong and Galwan to bargain with to secure the buffers there but now China has no positions to use as bargaining to get buffer and India understands this and refuses to leave the rest.

If China sends boots in again then Indian might break their agreement and try to capture Pangong and Galwan. I think China has enough material though to threaten Modi's government with.

Modi is the one between a rock and a hard place though because if he agrees to total buffer, he loses Aksai Chin for good and the Bhakts will lynch him. If Modi denies China for too long, then China might humiliate him a bit more or find other ways to put pressure on Modi to relent quietly. Maybe both sides agree to tell the bhakts they are fine but Modi capitulates under the table just like in 2020. We've now proven that Modi lied in 2020 and lost much worse than both sides let on. China tried to save him some face but he refuses to finish the job. Just like in July 2020, China didn't do much to disprove the Indian lies about Indians not being armed and Indians being victorious and killing hundreds of PLA. Since December 2020 China proved that Indians were equipped and armed. Then now China proved India captured nobody and India's beating and capture was much more severe than China let loose last year. So again Modi can work with China to contain the PR mess for Modi while he quietly relents and removes IA slowly. Who knows how it plays but Modi is holding nothing.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
So anyone knows why the talks failed? Did India opened its mouth and demanded the PLA to straight up leave from their lands?

Because, however Indian wishes China to retreat, owning land is permanent. So what is India offering to China in order for it to retreat?

Trade is already up, and in the end, money comes and go, while land will stay forever. Unless India offers something in equal value to permanently owning land, I dont see the PLA disengaging anytime soon.

Boots on the ground > everthing else.
PLA already partially disengaged from the friction point in question(pp15) last summer. This round of talks was about creating a formal buffer zone, which would likely mean further pullback by both sides. Perhaps that is why China refused.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
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PLA already partially disengaged from the friction point in question(pp15) last summer. This round of talks was about creating a formal buffer zone, which would likely mean further pullback by both sides. Perhaps that is why China refused.

It's quite unlikely China is refusing buffer. Buffer is what China is negotiating for. Why? Because a buffer means India gets zero access to everything it claims while China secures its control of Aksai Chin and won't be within many many kilometers of Indians. India is the one refusing pullback not China because it will cost India everything it claims.

China has little or nothing to pull back now anyway. They've exchanged PLA forward positions to secure buffer out of Galwan Valley sections and Pangong Lake.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
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If you have any better satellite photos you are welcome to post them.

Just because he doesn't make up conclusions from random satellite photos showing nothing doesn't mean the ones you show go anywhere towards proving your points.

Right now you are taking random satellite photos considered by DFI people to be showing Indian artillery and then presenting that as proof. There is no timeline there is no showing anything that can be identified and even if we assume what DFI members say are accurate, there is still no showing movement. These could have been from May 2020 for all we know and the DFI guys don't even provide an indication of where exactly the satellite images are showing.

Im suggesting that we try to find the more "reliable" photos and building an image of what we suspect might be India positions and assigning dates to those sat pics and then seeing if we can find photos of the same area in another time and compare. With available Google earth sat pics, it just isn't good enough to provide accurate understanding of how troops are moving in real time.

Having said that obviously India has some token positions within otherwise there would be no need for talks.

Whether those positions translate to India controlling that land is another question. I very much doubt at the moment that China would accept India controlling any speck of the 20% even if it is just 5% but we'll see. Maybe the trouble simply isn't worth it and China keep 80% while India gets <20% and the remaining are buffers. We'll have to see how it plays out.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just because he doesn't make up conclusions from random satellite photos showing nothing doesn't mean the ones you show go anywhere towards proving your points.

Right now you are taking random satellite photos considered by DFI people to be showing Indian artillery and then presenting that as proof. There is no timeline there is no showing anything that can be identified and even if we assume what DFI members say are accurate, there is still no showing movement. These could have been from May 2020 for all we know and the DFI guys don't even provide an indication of where exactly the satellite images are showing.

Im suggesting that we try to find the more "reliable" photos and building an image of what we suspect might be India positions and assigning dates to those sat pics and then seeing if we can find photos of the same area in another time and compare. With available Google earth sat pics, it just isn't good enough to provide accurate understanding of how troops are moving in real time.

Having said that obviously India has some token positions within otherwise there would be no need for talks.

Whether those positions translate to India controlling that land is another question. I very much doubt at the moment that China would accept India controlling any speck of the 20% even if it is just 5% but we'll see. Maybe the trouble simply isn't worth it and China keep 80% while India gets <20% and the remaining are buffers. We'll have to see how it plays out.
That map was using imagery from late spring/early summer of 2021
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
That map was using imagery from late spring/early summer of 2021

Okay so it's recent.

Is it the only Indian position within the 20% dispute we know of? Do you mind putting some general indications of where the Indians are within 20% on a map of the total legacy dispute? That would be of value. I don't care to go through pages of DFI slurs and general jingoism to collect enough idea of where the Indians might currently be camping.
 

hashtagpls

Senior Member
Registered Member
What mystifies me is how these Indians who we are told are extremely spiritual and religious, why these Indians are so caught up in such mundane and earthly issues such as border lands and looking good for the white Anglo/ comprador class?
 
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