Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[Phead128]

Be careful with what you say, there are 1.4 billion "loonnies" who do not tolerate any single one case.

Who cares if you see a reason or not? It is not your port, harbor, home to be locked down. Who gives a fxxk about deflation crises in your country due to your incompetent government and idiotic population who loves viruses crawling inside yourselves?

"jeopardizing the only leverage"?, no, we are testing the power of that leverage. To see how long you are going to stand without the goods from our port.

To be honest, COVID is not going to be eradicated globally. China needs to have every Chinese gets vaccinated with 2nd-gen vaccines and pray COVID ravages enough of global population to hits an immunity wall and evolve less virulence like other flu pandemics in the past. Either that, or wait to see if 2nd-gen vaccines reduced global COVID deaths down to influenza-level (e.g.,

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flu-related deaths in China annually or 8% of deaths due to respiratory disease)

 

[daifo]

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“We had a chance in the beginning of this pandemic,” Maria Van Kerkhove, the WHO’s technical lead on Covid-19, said Tuesday. “This pandemic did not need to be this bad.”

Countries with open border and letting people travel in/out and no quarantine period which allow mutants to spread around.

 

[OppositeDay]

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Walvax completed the construction of its mRNA vaccine manufacturing plant. All major manufacturing equipments were made in China and all major ingredients/materials will be made in China.

 

[Phead128]

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Walvax completed the construction of its mRNA vaccine manufacturing plant. All major manufacturing equipments were made in China and all major ingredients/materials will be made in China.

China should embargo Pfizer mRNA in the Chinese market and fully adopt indigenous mRNA tech by WalVax and SinoPharm. Who knows, the West maybe says mRNA is a sensitive export of national security interest and ban it's export to China since China (might) use it for military applications or whatever. CHina should cultivate it's own technologies, same with semiconductors.

Otherwise, you become like India, wholly dependent on foreign imports of vaccine tech, dominated by foreign tech, and your indigenous tech can't thrive. No more of that B.S. for China.

 

[AndrewS]

China should embargo Pfizer mRNA in the Chinese market and fully adopt indigenous mRNA tech by WalVax and SinoPharm. Who knows, the West maybe says mRNA is a sensitive export of national security interest and ban it's export to China since China (might) use it for military applications or whatever. CHina should cultivate it's own technologies, same with semiconductors.

Otherwise, you become like India, wholly dependent on foreign imports of vaccine tech, dominated by foreign tech, and your indigenous tech can't thrive. No more of that B.S. for China.

Personally, I think China should be pouring in resources to develop mRNA vaccines for every sort of cancer or disease asap.

It should end up profitable and would also be a huge net positive for humankind

 

[supersnoop]

China should embargo Pfizer mRNA in the Chinese market and fully adopt indigenous mRNA tech by WalVax and SinoPharm. Who knows, the West maybe says mRNA is a sensitive export of national security interest and ban it's export to China since China (might) use it for military applications or whatever. CHina should cultivate it's own technologies, same with semiconductors.

Otherwise, you become like India, wholly dependent on foreign imports of vaccine tech, dominated by foreign tech, and your indigenous tech can't thrive. No more of that B.S. for China.

I think this is the opposite of what China needs. Looking at the Chinese auto industry, 10 years ago it was dominated by foreign brands. Today, VW is fighting tooth and nail to keep on top, GM is exporting cars to USA from China, Germany is afraid of Geely, and the startup EV makers are making waves.

If you want to be the best, you have to compete with the best. This is what doomed the post-Soviet industry of Eastern Europe. The companies and equipment were inefficient and outdated. China only managed to avoid the deluge of Western capital by the joint venture system.

So basically the government has given a head start to the domestic vaccine makers, but to continue as successful enterprises, they must be able to take on Pfizer head on. We can see already that confidence has been gained by Sinovac and Sinopharm as the Delta and other new variants are spreading. The overall protection is holding up even relative to Pfizer, the production is steady and importantly, the price is LOW. Mostly Sinopharm has been used as donations, while Sinovac is sales. In effect, countries are putting their money and trust in the product.

 

[Phead128]

I think this is the opposite of what China needs. Looking at the Chinese auto industry, 10 years ago it was dominated by foreign brands. Today, VW is fighting tooth and nail to keep on top, GM is exporting cars to USA from China, Germany is afraid of Geely, and the startup EV makers are making waves.

If you want to be the best, you have to compete with the best. This is what doomed the post-Soviet industry of Eastern Europe. The companies and equipment were inefficient and outdated. China only managed to avoid the deluge of Western capital by the joint venture system.

So basically the government has given a head start to the domestic vaccine makers, but to continue as successful enterprises, they must be able to take on Pfizer head on. We can see already that confidence has been gained by Sinovac and Sinopharm as the Delta and other new variants are spreading. The overall protection is holding up even relative to Pfizer, the production is steady and importantly, the price is LOW. Mostly Sinopharm has been used as donations, while Sinovac is sales. In effect, countries are putting their money and trust in the product.

It's easier to compete with the best when mRNA vaccines has only one or two performance parameters: efficacy against infection.

Automobiles have like a thousand different performance parameters, from engine fuel-economy, engine horse-power, engine-emissions, engine-thermal performance, engine tow-capacity, not even mentioning the creature-comforts like interior design, seats, dashboard, power-steering, radar cruise-control, rear-view cameras, speakers, leather materials, sun roof, bluetooth, etc...

The two industries are not even remotely comparable.

China can become EQUALS of the West in mRNA vaccine tech overnight by hitting efficacy-equality, whereas it will take DECADES of years of joint-ventures to equal to build an equivalent Western high-end luxury car that has thousands and thousands of components to get right. In contrast with mRNA vaccines, you only need to hit 'efficacy' equivalency to be equal to them. Add in adverse events too. The criteria is much easier than automobiles equality.

 

[supersnoop]

It's easier to compete with the best when mRNA vaccines has only one performance parameters: efficacy against infection.

Automobiles have like a thousand different performance parameters, from engine fuel-economy, engine horse-power, engine-emissions, engine-thermal performance, engine tow-capacity, not even mentioning the creature-comforts like interior design, seats, dashboard, power-steering, radar cruise-control, rear-view cameras, speakers, leather materials, sun roof, bluetooth, etc...

The two industries are not even remotely comparable.

China can become EQUALS of the West in mRNA vaccine tech overnight by hitting efficacy-equality, whereas it will take DECADES of years of joint-ventures to equal to build an equivalent Western high-end luxury car that has thousands and thousands of components to get right. In contrast with mRNA vaccines, you only need to hit 'efficacy' equivalency to be equal to them.

Scientifically yes, that is the only parameter.
However, as a whole enterprise, there is marketing, production efficiency/yield, management efficiency, etc.
The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is so popular, and not just because of "Western Conspiracy", because it is in higher demand than Moderna too. The reason is that Pfizer's marketing machine is simply unmatched. Who doesn't know Viagra?

Not to get too deep, because it would become off topic, but Chinese companies have been learning a lot in the past 10 years, this is ALL industries, not just cars. A Chinese handset maker knows it can't just knock off the iPhone look and expect it to sell just because it's cheaper and managed to cram in another 4 gigs of RAM and 128GB of storage. Western companies are being challenged seriously now, especially in more emerging markets. The covid vaccine market is something emerging, so definitely something that Chinese companies can learn how to go toe to toe with the Pfizers, Mercks, Sanofis, AstraZenecas, etc. especially to learn to deal with all the dirty tricks, corporate or geopolitical. Once the relationship and trust is established over something like covid vaccines, then there will be an opening for future pharma products.

 

[PiSigma]

In hindsight, China should have heavily invested in Moderna in the early days of the pandemic at which point Moderna was on the verge of bankruptcy. The Moderna vax is significantly more effective than BioNTech's. Also, had China not played the politics game with Canada blocking CanSino trial in Canada, CanSino would have practically being the only shot in Canada considering it was co developed by the Canadian government.

There is so much false information in this post.

CanSino is NOT developed by the Canadian anything. It was a trial that CanSino wanted to run in Canada that the Canadian government was playing politics and cancelled. CanSino actually didn't want to cancel, but never got approval from Canada to do the trial.

 

[taxiya]

In hindsight, China should have heavily invested in Moderna in the early days of the pandemic at which point Moderna was on the verge of bankruptcy. The Moderna vax is significantly more effective than BioNTech's.

What is the point of putting money in a western pharmacy company WITHOUT having the tech in China's hand? By in China's hand, I mean not only legally own the right, but physically having the expertise in China. Investing in Moderna will only get Chinese money wasted at the whim of US government.