Ladakh Flash Point

[tallgamer]

The fact that he thinks India today is overwhelmingly pro gov. says enough.

See the responses to my comment above. No well argued responses but just unadulterated trolling and hate comments. Just proving my point that a closed upbringing results in a very thin skin. I am coming to the conclusion that they dont know how to react.
Or some type of stockholm syndrome. Like with the forcibly converted who act most fanatic to prove that they were voluntary converts.

They should see the YouTube channels of shyaam rangeela who is earning millions by lampooning modi continously. It will be a alien experience for them that the man supposedly incharge of the country is being openly ridiculed by a resident.
And the other comedian kunal kamra who uses open abuses against modi is in just another realm.

 

[Nobaron]

It seems our colonial bred friends are getting a bit itchy facing the uncomfortable truth about their master's free societies & demanding well argued response denying their roots . I am really enjoying the desperation for indians to hide behind their colonial masters & their donated values, though a H1 visa would be more elusive

 

[tallgamer]

My point is that I’ve never seen the Indian T-90 fire it’s guns at high altitude. I don’t think that it has anything to do with the guns, which probably performs superbly. But given how much the Indian media has been amping up the T-90 as the destroyer of Chinese armor we’ve never seen it doing what a basic tank does, which is live fire against a target. Not the main gun, heck not even the coaxial machine gun.

Is this due to a lack of ammo or fear of wearing out the tank barrels, which have to be imported from Russia, prematurely, or is there some magical secret anti-tank round that we are not aware of that India is keeping under wraps? I don’t know. What I do know is that ballistics work very differently at higher altitudes due to lower air density. An errant gust of wind is enough to throw artillery rounds dozens or even hundreds of meters off the mark. I also know that recalibrating artillery, tank guns, and missiles require hundreds, if not thousands of live rounds, under all sorts of weather conditions. I don’t think those are conditions that the Russian manufacturers had in mind when they designed the T-90.

No idea whether recalibration has taken place for the tanks but why assume that all military operations will be openly broadcast ?
But nowadays i doubt 1000s of rounds are required.
Their were always altitude charts against which firing took place .These charts just have to be fine tuned with firing at the required altitude. With modern computing even these can be reduced.
Technically i would be more interested in the effect of very cold weather on the change in clearances. Though being Russian tanks that might be a big issue. Unless the tanks were especially made for the hot desert regions of rajasthan with different clearances.

 

[Xizor]

The fact that he thinks India today is overwhelmingly pro gov. says enough.

Is India Today Pro-India? That's enough for it to be a propaganda carrier. .

Even with all these Anti-Modi media, India still at 142 rank means that the division of media is merely partisan / ideological based on domestic politics like in the US ( Fox vs CNN) but almost always toeing the propaganda demands in the international front.

 

[do3jack]

People from controlled societies confuse a free society with being a 100 % free and perfect society.
And its disturbing that most of the Chinese here are based in the west and have experienced first hand what freedom is.
Their is no such thing as absolute freedom.
Till the 90s when communal riots were quite common, the media would not and could not publish the name of the community effected in a riot. This was to prevent escalation as both communities were unsure who was at the recieving end. And i can assure you muslims were much more reactive till the 90s to any perceived insult or slight and would riot quite easily.
So this was a self imposed restriction by the old media.
But social media has made all this self censorship irrelevant and this is gone from the national media.
2ndly Indian states look after law and order. The central government cannot physically enter a state without imposing emergency. Which is very rare now since exit of indira Gandhi.
You saw this in west Bengal where the central forces on election duty faced a lot of hostility from the opposition party which is ruling. With allegations of the central forces helping bjp etc , till the bjp lost badly. Then they shut up.
The problem is not freedom as much as the media houses choosing camps. Not only in India but same phenomenon in usa. Like cnn is so virulently against trump that its coverage is totally biased.
So freedom is required not only from official sources but freedom from political bias is more important.
All the violence you have enumerated is more from local power centres and very scant from central government.
In India journalists are undoubtedly harrassed by the government but its done officially. And they are normally out on bail in a short period. As the governments know it wont stand in court.
Its more dangerous when like in Pakistan journalists are shot and no enquiry takes place or they are picked up by the isi in unmarked vehicles and disappear for months. And on release dont say a word about their absence.
China is a different category where people have no rights. Its all for the party. Like people are being picked up in hk and imprisoned for long terms under dubious laws.
In mainland China with 99.6 % conviction rate, you have zero redressal chances and just keep your mouth shut. People are like machine parts. To be used and discarded.

There are too many mistakes in your speech. I will only talk about one point. It is about Hong Kong. If someone rallies to protest in India and raises the flags of Pakistan and China, saying that they are not Indians and they want independence, how do you deal with it?

 

[Nobaron]

how do you deal with it?

HAHA, you better dial Gauri lankesh asap

 

[manqiangrexue]

Their only source of info on ladakh is Indian channels and Indian free press.

I like how you ridicule that because you know how retarded your media is.

And a few edited Chinese videos.

How were they edited? Did they take a cowardly Chinese ambush on unarmed Indian negotiators look the opposite? Did they swap the faces? LOL

Ougre has become totally incoherent and the pretend mod is digressing to Afghanistan and movies.

Which is somehow more off topic than you talking about Chinese societal freedoms in the Ladakh thread when that society has built the most modern metropolises in the world and your Indian society still has crowds driving on unpaved roads with tuk-tuks next to cows, shitting anywhere they can squat.

Result of being brought up in a society with a single narrative. When that's challenged, their whole self worth collapses , as its so closely tied through indoctrination to the communist narrative.

You know, it's funny; it's not that you don't know but it's just that you can't put 2 and 2 together. You know that this is an English forum and the Chinese people here are mainly in the West. So... that means that instead of being brainwashed by some single narrative, we are actually free-thinkers who go against the main narratives in our societies... while you, an Indian and supposedly in Florida, can only regurgitate what your media tells you.

And by the way, our self-worth is on our achievements and the achievements of China; what's India's self-worth based from? Consumption of bovine excrement.

Not only cursing India but the west too , which they so closely copy to be "successful" in their own eyes.
Communism- western import
Open market capitalism- western

Chinese system is a copy of nothing, although it incorporates the best of everything. This tailor-made system is why Chinese growth is unrivaled in the world while India, a country that was richer than China at the founding of the CCP in 1949, with a population similar to China's, drowns in its own filth trying to follow British democracy.

Lack of freedom to individuals - totally Chinese

Lack of knowledge on China - totally Indian and American

A guy was proudly telling me a few pages back that ' we dont have a independent press in China '.

And from the Indian press, we see why that's good.

China is a different category where people have no rights.

Chinese people have the right to follow the laws and live their lives without damaging society.

Its all for the party.

My, what a success that is compared to the India model, eh?

Like people are being picked up in hk and imprisoned for long terms under dubious laws.

You mean the law that says you can't stab people, lob Molotovs or shoot arrows at the police? Yeah, we have those rules. They should go to jail for life.

In mainland China with 99.6 % conviction rate, you have zero redressal chances and just keep your mouth shut. People are like machine parts. To be used and discarded.

Chinese people are very useful, and have the heart to do good with it. Indians are useless and selfish. Now we see why the disparity between the powers of these two nations.

 

[tallgamer]

There are too many mistakes in your speech. I will only talk about one point. It is about Hong Kong. If someone rallies to protest in India and raises the flags of Pakistan and China, saying that they are not Indians and they want independence, how do you deal with it?

You didn't see the countrywide protests in India for rights of Pakistani, Afghan and Bangladesh muslims to migrate to India in a expedited manner , like was being given to the minorities in these countries ?
So many videos in YouTube of college students in delhi asking for "azadi"(freedom), though they couch it in more subtle ways by associating it with freedoms in the country .
Our flag and constitution has been openly burnt so many times that it doesn't make much news.
Farmers are still blocking key highways around delhi for continuing subsidies. More than a year. A 30 min drive now takes more than 2 hours. These guys have free electricity and pay zero taxes. Many are super rich. And they indulged in violence in the main red fort area. Didnt see any getting shot.
Frankly its a joke comparing hk to India.
The freedom loving legislatures have been banned from your parliament and many put in jail. Even standing for elections is decided by the chief executive of hk.
Flying a Pakistani or Chinese flag will get some local police censure but the guy can't be jailed under present laws , will be released on the same day. To assuage local feelings some drama only. Legally cant be prosecuted .
And these are enemy countries. You are comparing with uk flag , which is not a open enemy of China.
A few years back i was watching a ipl cricket match in a stadium and some local college guys brought a Bangladesh flag and were hooting fir3 Bangladesh. Ipl is a local tournament. Everyone just laughed.

 

[ougoah]

The last 3 are bad about journalist getting arrested

But if we can influence decision makes to take our stand what's wrong with that do you know how many articles Thier are of Chinese influence and spying in the us
Just last year Thier was a Chinese driver spy arrested in us

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Of course news websites by India support India don't be delusional that china dosent buy foreign media

China doesn't buy and influence foreign media. Show me one example.

China no doubt sends spies to other countries just like everyone else. You think there were no Soviet and now Russian spies? American spies? British spies? Indian spies?

You showed us China might have spies. Well yes duh it has spies. No different to everyone else. What we were referring to was India's false "free press" and Indian censorship. Your reply to that was to say China has spies?

 

[Abhimanyu]

I think there are incorrect perceptions both Indians and Chinese have about each other. For example about Muslims, poverty in case of India and people being total slaves of communists in China. There is never a black and white version. You have to add lot more colours to arrive at a true picture. Both are thoroughly inaccurate perceptions.