Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[plawolf]

Yay the Covid Pandemic is over in England within 12 days.

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Words fail me to adequately convey the disgust I have for UK’s leaders. They are now talking about needing to live with covid and blatantly admitting defeat and blaming that on the growing public pressure to end lockdown. Basically it’s the same strategy as what teenagers who don’t want to do the dishes employ - do such a fuckawful job of it that the parents ask them to stop doing the dishes.

The amount of spin and sleaze being put out by the so-call scientific advisers makes it abundantly clear that they are nothing more than politicians with letters behind their names, because the shit they are spewing has zero scientific basis and they are just weaponising science to serve the political agenda of the idiots in charge.

At the start, they were excusing the world leading mortality rates by over-emphasising the fact that most of the dead are old. As if that meant it was ok for them to be dying like flies.

Now it’s the young that is dying and the emphasis is on how fewer deaths and hospitalisations there are. No self respecting man of science would be so blatantly inconsistent.

This is just a mini lockdown-holiday for the Karen’s to blow off some steam before another full lockdown is needed in the autumn and winter as caseloads and deaths inevitably explode due to the Indian variant running rampant and this easing of lockdown. And that’s the best case scenario. The UK is playing with fire, and there is a real danger that they end up breeding a new vaccine resistant super variant that reset the entire world’s vaccination efforts back to zero.

Although one interesting piece of information that was relieved during a radio interview, which I have not yet seen in writing anywhere, is that the majority of UK Indian variant covid deaths are people who have been fully vaccinated. And the fucker giving the interview had the audacity to claim that that is how vaccines are supposed to work!

It’s an absolute shitshow of the worse order, and I am seriously worried that the Indian variant’s death toll has only been kept low due to the infections being overwhelmingly with the young and healthy. With elderly and at risk groups having been able to successfully shield themselves thanks to the existing measures and their own discipline. That will end with lockdown easing as most people will let their guard down as a result.

 

[KYli]

That's sad. No mask and low vaccination rate and Forth of July. What could possibly go wrong?

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[Sardaukar20]

Words fail me to adequately convey the disgust I have for UK’s leaders. They are now talking about needing to live with covid and blatantly admitting defeat and blaming that on the growing public pressure to end lockdown. Basically it’s the same strategy as what teenagers who don’t want to do the dishes employ - do such a fuckawful job of it that the parents ask them to stop doing the dishes.

The amount of spin and sleaze being put out by the so-call scientific advisers makes it abundantly clear that they are nothing more than politicians with letters behind their names, because the shit they are spewing has zero scientific basis and they are just weaponising science to serve the political agenda of the idiots in charge.

At the start, they were excusing the world leading mortality rates by over-emphasising the fact that most of the dead are old. As if that meant it was ok for them to be dying like flies.

Now it’s the young that is dying and the emphasis is on how fewer deaths and hospitalisations there are. No self respecting man of science would be so blatantly inconsistent.

This is just a mini lockdown-holiday for the Karen’s to blow off some steam before another full lockdown is needed in the autumn and winter as caseloads and deaths inevitably explode due to the Indian variant running rampant and this easing of lockdown. And that’s the best case scenario. The UK is playing with fire, and there is a real danger that they end up breeding a new vaccine resistant super variant that reset the entire world’s vaccination efforts back to zero.

Although one interesting piece of information that was relieved during a radio interview, which I have not yet seen in writing anywhere, is that the majority of UK Indian variant covid deaths are people who have been fully vaccinated. And the fucker giving the interview had the audacity to claim that that is how vaccines are supposed to work!

It’s an absolute shitshow of the worse order, and I am seriously worried that the Indian variant’s death toll has only been kept low due to the infections being overwhelmingly with the young and healthy. With elderly and at risk groups having been able to successfully shield themselves thanks to the existing measures and their own discipline. That will end with lockdown easing as most people will let their guard down as a result.

Agreed. I share your disgust with the UK politicians.

I would also add to this, my utter disgust for the Indian politicians, especially those in the BJP. It is their utter neglect, incompetence, and arrogance, that has led to the spawning of the Delta (ahem...Indian) variant. I remembered in late last year, over 200 mutation variants of Covid-19 was found in India. Then Modi and the Jai Hinds had the audacity to declare victory over Covid early this year. They urged everyone not to call the new super-strain in India the Indian variant, which WHO responded by renaming it the Delta variant. But they continued to call Covid-19 the 'Wuhan Virus', and propagate the Wuhan lab-leak theory. Those c**ts!

Despite all the BS the Indian government and the Jai Hinds are spinning around. I am confident enough to say it at this point in time, that the Delta variant that they have unwittingly spawned, is ruining the global vaccination plans. There is enough incidents already to indicate that the Delta variant is readily killing people who have even been fully vaccinated. Now I predict that the 3rd vaccine dose would be made mandatory some day. Even then, we don't really know if it could really work. This, combined with the high potential for resurgence of Covid-19 due to the Delta variant will setback all of our reopening plans for 2021 and 2022.

All of these politicians, and c**ts in India, UK, US, Brazil, and others who have allowed Covid-19 to cause this much rampage due to politicking, deserves a special place in Hell.

 

[Phead128]

Wow...you accused me of a lot of things. I didn't actively look for the data source. Someone posted the information on this thread.

Hey, from the

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that you posted.


Source:

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• Among the 2-dose vaccinated who died with delta-variant, 100% were older (n=50) were >50 years old. 0% were young.
• Among the Un-vaccinated who died with delta-variant, only 86% were older, (n=38) were >50 years old. 13% were young.

Ergo, Unvaccinated group is has more younger people than the Vaccinated group. Young people tend to be more healthy and therefore have less mortality than older people.

It's not appropriate to draw conclusion on mortality caused by vaccines, when 100% of vaccinated are old people, and only 86% of unvaccinated are old people. There is an unequal distribution of age across the comparison group, which leads to systematic bias in interpretation of results.

The two groups are not comparable without adjusting for age as a confounding variable (since older people are more likely to die, with or without vaccines).

The other thing I wanted to say is that by shifting the number of deaths to the older age group, thereby increasing the death protection rate for the younger group to over 90% for example, the death protection rate for the older age group would have to go down to lower than 56% (to maybe 50% or lower depending on the death rate of the different age groups) in order to arrive at an overall protection rate of 56%. So, this is not really good news for older age people even if the younger age group has an over 90% protection rate.

Let's review your horrific mathematics again:

Let's do a quick vaccine efficacy check.
The issue of inoculated people dying from Covid-19 is not contained to Chinese vaccines.

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in June found that of the 117 people who died within 28 days of testing positive for the Delta variant in the UK, 50 had received two doses. But such deaths are rare -- in total, there were

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, of which 58% were unvaccinated. The UK

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Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech, which are both mRNA vaccines, and Oxford/AstraZeneca, which uses a different technology.

Death protection rate after completion of 2 doses. : (67/0.37 - 50/0.63)/(67/0.37) ==> 56.2% !

The true calculation is:

	2-dose vaccinated	Unvaccinated	Total
Younger (<50 age) that died	a = 0	b = 6	a+b = 6
Younger ([50 age) that did not die	c = 38,652	d = 53,371	c+d= 92,023
Total	a+c = 38,652	b+d = 53,377	a+b+c+d = 92,029

• Attack rate (death among 2-dose vaccinated younger people) = a / a+c = 0/ 38,652 = 0 or 0%
• Attack rate (death among unvaccinated younger people) = b / b+d = 6 / 35,339 = 0.000169784091230 or 0.0169%
• Vaccine effectiveness (VE) % = ( AR(unvax) - AR(vax) ) / AR (unvax) = (0.000169784091230 - 0/ 0.000169784091230 = 0.000169784091230 / 0.000169784091230 = 1.0 or 100% efficacy among younger people.

So 2-dose vaccination is 100% effective in prevention of death among younger (<50 age) people.

You can see what a big difference accounting for Age as a confounding variable.

You jump from 56% (overall) protection rate 100% (younger) once you account for the unequal distribution in age, which is a confounding variable.

I agree with what @KYli has said in the previous post which I've missed out on earlier.

The data you posted isn't a proper prospective longtiundinal cohort study with a systematic method to collect adverse effects and deaths data. It's self-reported, so it's susceptible to people not reporting adverse events or deaths or vaccination status. There is huge biases and limitations in the data you are citing.

Personally, I trust more on real-life results of vaccination programs in many different countries.

Not only is the data quality very poor to prove causality, you didn't even calculate the mathematics correctly to adjust for unequal age distribution. What good is data if you can't even calculate or interpret it correctly? Do you like biased results?

Also, FDA only uses self-reported side-effects to add warning labels, it doesn't use self-reported databases to approve drugs/medicines. They use rigorous RCT's for that, which is the Gold Standard for medicine/drugs. Only a jokester would value low-quality self-reported observational data over rigorous large-scale RCTs.

We'll have to wait for the completion of the vaccines programs in countries around the world to know the real outcome.

The data is already in the PDF that you posted, it just you didn't spend 1 minute to read through your own sources to look at the age-breakdowns, and you calculated based on the overall crude death rate without taking into account the unequal age distribution.

So time will tell what is right or wrong. Time to move on to more interesting stuff.

You really need to read your own sources that you post on PDF and don't jump to conclusions without fully understanding the data you post out here.

 

[Phead128]

I've already reported you to the mods. We'll see who will get the banning!

Good job, you got De-bunked by Fact Checkers from FullFacts.org on your UK 117 deaths from vaccines.

FullFacts.org:

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The article claims the briefing shows that, of the 117 Covid-19 deaths caused by the Delta variant that have occurred since 1 February, 60% of them were people who had received at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccines and, of this group of vaccinated people, 70% had received both doses.

These figures are

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. Of the 117 deaths, 3 involved people whose vaccine status was unknown, 70 were people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine (61% of the 114 known cases), and 44 were people who had not been vaccinated (39%). Fifty of the deaths (44%) were people who had received both doses.

However, this does not mean that the vaccines do not work, or are dangerous.

None of the current vaccines are 100% effective against Covid-19, but they do make a big difference. The same PHE

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also reported that two doses of the vaccine are 96% effective against hospitalisation with the Delta variant.

The UK’s vaccination programme has prioritised ensuring that the elderly and vulnerable were vaccinated first, meaning these people are also the

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to have received their second vaccine dose. However, this group is also the most

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from Covid-19, and no current vaccine removes all risk.

Writing for

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statisticians Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter and Anthony Masters said that someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially is at the same risk from Covid-19 as an unvaccinated person of around 50.

 

[KYli]

Don't think it matters anymore. Those racists can't accept the fact that the West failed so badly on the coronavirus and they are willing to entertain any kinds of conspiracy theories to make themselves feel better. Lab theory especially the Wuhan lab leak theory is not more a fringe movement but a mainstream movement within the Western societies.

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[Abominable]

Words fail me to adequately convey the disgust I have for UK’s leaders. They are now talking about needing to live with covid and blatantly admitting defeat and blaming that on the growing public pressure to end lockdown. Basically it’s the same strategy as what teenagers who don’t want to do the dishes employ - do such a fuckawful job of it that the parents ask them to stop doing the dishes.

The amount of spin and sleaze being put out by the so-call scientific advisers makes it abundantly clear that they are nothing more than politicians with letters behind their names, because the shit they are spewing has zero scientific basis and they are just weaponising science to serve the political agenda of the idiots in charge.

At the start, they were excusing the world leading mortality rates by over-emphasising the fact that most of the dead are old. As if that meant it was ok for them to be dying like flies.

Now it’s the young that is dying and the emphasis is on how fewer deaths and hospitalisations there are. No self respecting man of science would be so blatantly inconsistent.

This is just a mini lockdown-holiday for the Karen’s to blow off some steam before another full lockdown is needed in the autumn and winter as caseloads and deaths inevitably explode due to the Indian variant running rampant and this easing of lockdown. And that’s the best case scenario. The UK is playing with fire, and there is a real danger that they end up breeding a new vaccine resistant super variant that reset the entire world’s vaccination efforts back to zero.

Although one interesting piece of information that was relieved during a radio interview, which I have not yet seen in writing anywhere, is that the majority of UK Indian variant covid deaths are people who have been fully vaccinated. And the fucker giving the interview had the audacity to claim that that is how vaccines are supposed to work!

It’s an absolute shitshow of the worse order, and I am seriously worried that the Indian variant’s death toll has only been kept low due to the infections being overwhelmingly with the young and healthy. With elderly and at risk groups having been able to successfully shield themselves thanks to the existing measures and their own discipline. That will end with lockdown easing as most people will let their guard down as a result.

This has been no surprise to me. I've been watching the case numbers rise slowly with very little media coverage. I agree lockdowns aren't feasible forever but some action needs to be taken with caseloads increasing everywhere.

They're going to adopt the Indian strategy of dealing with covid. Pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[OppositeDay]

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Clover's is one of China's most promising COVID-19 vaccine candidates, and the experience of conducting an international trial of this size is itself invaluable. This and Walvax's mRNA are the two Chinese vaccines to watch out for in the next few months.

However I'm not sure China itself is going to order much of Clover's vaccine as it uses an American adjuvant which has supply chain implications. Someone asked earlier in the thread about the difference between Chinese inactivated vaccines and the Indian one. The biggest difference is Chinese inactivated vaccines use traditional aluminum hydroxide adjuvant whereas the Indian vaccine uses proprietary American adjuvant. That's why India had trouble making its own inactivated vaccine after Biden restricted export.

 

[B.I.B.]

This has been no surprise to me. I've been watching the case numbers rise slowly with very little media coverage. I agree lockdowns aren't feasible forever but some action needs to be taken with caseloads increasing everywhere.

They're going to adopt the Indian strategy of dealing with covid. Pretend it doesn't exist.

There is a growing minority in NZ suggesting we should follow England's example, even suggesting that within a couple of yrs it will be accepted as no more of a nuisance than a cold. It has been suggested that the only people that favour lockdowns are pensioners, beneficiaries and people whose wages are paid for by the government. Meanwhile, those who are doing it hard are facing financial ruin.

 

[supercat]

Egypt will vaccinate 40% of its population with locally produced Sinovac starting in August.

Egypt to start vaccinating with locally produced ‘Sinovac’ in August​

Egyptian Ministry of Health on Saturday said that vaccination centers will start vaccinating with locally produced doses of the Chinese “Sinovac” drug in August, with the total aim to vaccinate 40 percent of citizens with 80 million doses.

Chinese experts have approved Egypt’s locally made Sinovac vaccine, having passed 11 tests.

The ministry added that it produced 650,000 doses of the vaccine during the past 48 hours.

Within a few more days, it will produce about two million doses. It added that more raw material will reach Egypt soon, which will be sufficient to manufacture seven and a half million more doses.

The ministry will have produced 10 million doses of the vaccine by the end of July, it said.

Egypt will also receive the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, used for travel, study or work purposes as it is only one dose and will be available in 179 vaccine centers.

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Meanwhile, this is how western MSM report Chinese vaccine and western vaccine, respectively:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412382988143374338