Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Quickie

Colonel
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Same technology with Pfizer and Moderna but with a very different efficacy result. The only difference is the trial has been done in third-party countries. Go figure.

I am surprised that Vietnam seems to be unable to contain this wave of coronavirus.
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The Delta variant looks to be much more difficult to contain and this is happening in highly vaccinated countries as well although the death rate remains low probably due to the high vaccination.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Countries like Singapore are just opportunist jackals. Unable to compete with the apex predators of the world, they resort to favour currying for scraps.

They know they will always be at the mercy of bigger countries, so they seek the protection of the strongest faction.

Once the American decline becomes too obvious to deny, they will change their tune right quick.
I think that is too harsh of judgement. When Singapore gain independent She is nothing but malaria infested swamp with the largest employer being British military base that is leaving soon. So she has nothing then the fiasco with Malaysia . She ceremoniously kicked out of the federation. Soon she has to face confrontation with Indonesia.

With no military to speak of other than 1 battalion of poorly equipped army. So what are you going to do if you are poor and defenseless. So of course they built up the defense but it will take time She ask for help but no one call the answer except Taiwan and Israel. The Israel provide the training for the army and Taiwan pilot and sailor was inducted into the Air force and navy. China cannot help because she is mired in cultural revolution and busy fighting against themselves.

Politically the PAP still not secure and Communist(China supporter) still hold power and loyalty among the masses they just squeak thru election So yes there concerted effort to deSinized the population at large by deemphasize the connection to China in order to forge new Singapore identity which is pragmatic. Since Singapore is Chinese island in the sea of Malay who are always suspicious of China at that time due to western propaganda. Also 20% of Singaporean are Malay!

Economically Spore latch themselves to Japan and the west because they are the one who has money and industry to invest in Singapore. China was too poor back then. Many people in SEA send money to China to support the relative. I was in Spore in 67 and at that time it is backwater too many robber and prostitute(dancing hall). Most people still live in Kampung.

In order to facilitate investment Singapore opt for open port and welcome investor from Japan and the west . Actually America didn't come into picture at that time. Latter they work out and agreement with US by allowing small logistic group to operate in Singapore and visiting right and maintenance for US navy In return for US to provide sophisticated weaponry

So when you open the door the fly will come in. You cannot avoid it Western movie, western newspaper, western influence seep in. They realize that the westernization is going too far back in early 80's.

People here condemn Spore to easily but relation is not one way street, When the Indo burn, loot and rape Indonesian Chinese in 1998 what did China do NOTHING. To add insult to injury they even forbade Chinese civilian to protest. People in SEA see that as betrayal to your own kind and China is useless! and too coward to help so called blood and kin.
When the overseas Chinese always help and support China thru thick and thin! thru history
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So before you point the finger you should ask yourselves What has China did for overseas Chinese? BIG NOTHING!
Pogrom and riot against Chinese in SEA is common There were big riot in Malaysia back in 1964, 1969
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Again China did nothing
When ask why china did nothing Zhou Enlai Said it is like giving up a daughter for marriage Once she is gone the family has no responsibility anymore . Now why should overseas China own loyalty to China then!

I don't think the founder of Singapore are ashamed of their identity most of them are peranakan and they always balance between Their Chinese identity and the need for western science and technology. Though I have to say that the latter convert(English speaking chinese) tend to go overboard with westernization and worshipped the west on the altar. Something gone wrong along the way!
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Same technology with Pfizer and Moderna but with a very different efficacy result. The only difference is the trial has been done in third-party countries. Go figure.



The Delta variant looks to be much more difficult to contain and this is happening in highly vaccinated countries as well although the death rate remains low probably due to the high vaccination.
The technical details are actually different. Although CureVac's claim of "improved induction" did not pan out well.

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Use of unmodified, natural mRNA
This allows for improved induction of the viral defenses of the body, including interferon type 1.
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The two mRNA front-runners share many commonalities. Both take advantage of modified RNA chemistry to encode the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein

Another thing to consider is that in which country was CureVac conducting their phase III trial. What is the dominant variant there during their trail? We know that variant delta also reduces other vaccines' efficacy.

I do share the same suspicion with you that Pfizer's "90%" is bloated even considering the earlier variant being easier to handle. I also suspect Pfizer's claim of "slightly reduced efficacy against delta" based on limited lab test. If Pfizer is to conduct a new phase III trail in India, the number probably would be much worse than they try to claim.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think that is too harsh of judgement. When Singapore gain independent She is nothing but malaria infested swamp with the largest employer being British military base that is leaving soon. So she has nothing then the fiasco with Malaysia . She ceremoniously kicked out of the federation. Soon she has to face confrontation with Indonesia.

With no military to speak of other than 1 battalion of poorly equipped army. So what are you going to do if you are poor and defenseless. So of course they built up the defense but it will take time She ask for help but no one call the answer except Taiwan and Israel. The Israel provide the training for the army and Taiwan pilot and sailor was inducted into the Air force and navy. China cannot help because she is mired in cultural revolution and busy fighting against themselves.

Politically the PAP still not secure and Communist(China supporter) still hold power and loyalty among the masses they just squeak thru election So yes there concerted effort to deSinized the population at large by deemphasize the connection to China in order to forge new Singapore identity which is pragmatic. Since Singapore is Chinese island in the sea of Malay who are always suspicious of China at that time due to western propaganda. Also 20% of Singaporean are Malay!

Economically Spore latch themselves to Japan and the west because they are the one who has money and industry to invest in Singapore. China was too poor back then. Many people in SEA send money to China to support the relative. I was in Spore in 67 and at that time it is backwater too many robber and prostitute(dancing hall). Most people still live in Kampung.

In order to facilitate investment Singapore opt for open port and welcome investor from Japan and the west . Actually America didn't come into picture at that time. Latter they work out and agreement with US by allowing small logistic group to operate in Singapore and visiting right and maintenance for US navy In return for US to provide sophisticated weaponry

So when you open the door the fly will come in. You cannot avoid it Western movie, western newspaper, western influence seep in. They realize that the westernization is going too far back in early 80's.

People here condemn Spore to easily but relation is not one way street, When the Indo burn, loot and rape Indonesian Chinese in 1998 what did China do NOTHING. To add insult to injury they even forbade Chinese civilian to protest. People in SEA see that as betrayal to your own kind and China is useless! and too coward to help so called blood and kin.
When the overseas Chinese always help and support China thru thick and thin! thru history
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So before you point the finger you should ask yourselves What has China did for overseas Chinese? BIG NOTHING!
Pogrom and riot against Chinese in SEA is common There were big riot in Malaysia back in 1964, 1969
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Again China did nothing
When ask why china did nothing Zhou Enlai Said it is like giving up a daughter for marriage Once she is gone the family has no responsibility anymore . Now why should overseas China own loyalty to China then!

I don't think the founder of Singapore are ashamed of their identity most of them are peranakan and they always balance between Their Chinese identity and the need for western science and technology. Though I have to say that the latter convert(English speaking chinese) tend to go overboard with westernization and worshipped the west on the altar. Something gone wrong along the way!
I guess I'll let the former F.M. of Singapore, George Yeo answer this particular dichotomy of Chinese in Singapore from being a Chinese in China.

"The problem of dual loyalty was partly resolved in the 1950s when Zhou Enlai was in Bandung. He told ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia: You're a citizen of Indonesia. You're not huaqiao (华侨, overseas Chinese), you are Indonesian, you are Singaporean, you are Malaysian, you are Thai. But the cultural links are very natural. They can never go away because you are Chinese. You have the same traditions, you have the same literature. You have the same customs, the same calendar. So naturally, there are these links."

"It is very important that Chinese nationalism be a broad-minded and big-hearted nationalism. If it is narrow-minded, and small-hearted, it will destroy China. It must be a big nationalism, which learns from others, which is humble, which knows itself, which takes a lively interest in the experiences of others, and learns from them without judging them. Then China will be a great nation, and the CCP will really be a leading force. But that is a challenge."


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Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
The technical details are actually different. Although CureVac's claim of "improved induction" did not pan out well.

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Another thing to consider is that in which country was CureVac conducting their phase III trial. What is the dominant variant there during their trail? We know that variant delta also reduces other vaccines' efficacy.

I do share the same suspicion with you that Pfizer's "90%" is bloated even considering the earlier variant being easier to handle. I also suspect Pfizer's claim of "slightly reduced efficacy against delta" based on limited lab test. If Pfizer is to conduct a new phase III trail in India, the number probably would be much worse than they try to claim.
I think gauging effectiveness would be far more efficient as this point than any phase 3 trail, as Pfizer and Moderna vaccine start to get to other countries… we can see the numbers in real term conditions like with SinoVac in Indonesia. Further even if they do another phase 3 trail in India, there are too much financial and political baggage to have any real meaning to the results of the trail, for one the India will probably get the nod to manufacture the vaccines in question which will give a conflict of interest to the results anyway. India as we all know is the vaccine SupaPowa of the world and they have to maintain this title after all. I doubt the same level of scrutiny would be applied in the same way as they did for sinovac or sinophram.

The UK is already a good gauge to the effectiveness of Astrazeneca, Germany, Israel and US would be a good gauge for Pfizer/Biontech and India despite the possible issues/doubts over under reporting should be a good gauge for Moderna along with the US… and the numbers coming in from “third party” countries will provide a gauge as to whether the governments of the countries above are BSing everyone… so we will just have to wait and see.

Despite my doubts and suspicions I really hope the effectiveness of the various vaccines are as advertised then we can put this whole COVID business behind us and we can move on to and get over the political royal rumble, just that little bit quicker…
 

solarz

Brigadier
I think gauging effectiveness would be far more efficient as this point than any phase 3 trail, as Pfizer and Moderna vaccine start to get to other countries… we can see the numbers in real term conditions like with SinoVac in Indonesia. Further even if they do another phase 3 trail in India, there are too much financial and political baggage to have any real meaning to the results of the trail, for one the India will probably get the nod to manufacture the vaccines in question which will give a conflict of interest to the results anyway. India as we all know is the vaccine SupaPowa of the world and they have to maintain this title after all. I doubt the same level of scrutiny would be applied in the same way as they did for sinovac or sinophram.

The UK is already a good gauge to the effectiveness of Astrazeneca, Germany, Israel and US would be a good gauge for Pfizer/Biontech and India despite the possible issues/doubts over under reporting should be a good gauge for Moderna along with the US… and the numbers coming in from “third party” countries will provide a gauge as to whether the governments of the countries above are BSing everyone… so we will just have to wait and see.

Despite my doubts and suspicions I really hope the effectiveness of the various vaccines are as advertised then we can put this whole COVID business behind us and we can move on to and get over the political royal rumble, just that little bit quicker…

It's pretty obvious by now that Pfizer, Moderna, Sinopharm and Sinovac are all effective at curbing the spread of covid-19.

The effectiveness of Pfizer/Moderna can be seen in the dramatic drop in infection and deaths in the US, which exclusively uses those two vaccines and have a high vaccination rate.

It's also clear that Astra-Zeneca and it's Indian made variant are the most ineffective and dangerous vaccines. It's telling that these are the vaccines that Western countries like US and Canada are sending to the rest of the world, all the while banning their use at home.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
I guess I'll let the former F.M. of Singapore, George Yeo answer this particular dichotomy of Chinese in Singapore from being a Chinese in China.

"The problem of dual loyalty was partly resolved in the 1950s when Zhou Enlai was in Bandung. He told ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia: You're a citizen of Indonesia. You're not huaqiao (华侨, overseas Chinese), you are Indonesian, you are Singaporean, you are Malaysian, you are Thai. But the cultural links are very natural. They can never go away because you are Chinese. You have the same traditions, you have the same literature. You have the same customs, the same calendar. So naturally, there are these links."

"It is very important that Chinese nationalism be a broad-minded and big-hearted nationalism. If it is narrow-minded, and small-hearted, it will destroy China. It must be a big nationalism, which learns from others, which is humble, which knows itself, which takes a lively interest in the experiences of others, and learns from them without judging them. Then China will be a great nation, and the CCP will really be a leading force. But that is a challenge."


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Good article thanks. Completely agree Cultural Chinese and national loyalty is 2 different thing. Of course culturally overseas China are close to China because we share culture, tradition, value, custom etc
 
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Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's pretty obvious by now that Pfizer, Moderna, Sinopharm and Sinovac are all effective at curbing the spread of covid-19.

The effectiveness of Pfizer/Moderna can be seen in the dramatic drop in infection and deaths in the US, which exclusively uses those two vaccines and have a high vaccination rate.

It's also clear that Astra-Zeneca and it's Indian made variant are the most ineffective and dangerous vaccines. It's telling that these are the vaccines that Western countries like US and Canada are sending to the rest of the world, all the while banning their use at home.
My bad… I should have specifically stated for delta variant, which is main question mark at the moment as infection rate are starting to climb again because of it… and yes I recognise that it is clear that all the vaccines are effective against Covid-19 for the reasons you have stated.

I also share your concerns that Astra-Zeneca is the vaccine of choice for the west’s oh so generous donations… it’s just like when the FDA bans some drug but it always finds it way to lots of other countries
 

hkbc

Junior Member
People here condemn Spore to easily but relation is not one way street, When the Indo burn, loot and rape Indonesian Chinese in 1998 what did China do NOTHING. To add insult to injury they even forbade Chinese civilian to protest. People in SEA see that as betrayal to your own kind and China is useless! and too coward to help so called blood and kin.
When the overseas Chinese always help and support China thru thick and thin! thru history
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I usually wouldn't bother commenting on your sanctimonious, revisionist pronouncements, but hey why not, SEA Chinese support China through thick and thin, utter drivel, until the 2008 financial crisis, mainland Chinese were the poor relation to be looked down upon and pitied, in the early 2000s while visiting SEA I was 'advised' I shouldn't talk to mainland Chinese girls there as they're just here to be whores after the crisis China was a cash cow to be milked.

The ties between SEA Chinese and China are family and clan based the polity of China well they'd rather the KMT didn't lose but they did and money is money and family is family.

Before you shoot your mouth off about what would I know, my wife is from there and my father in law to this day won't countenance even visiting family in China because of Tibet, I am tolerated because I am a Hong Kong born Chinese, not a mainlander, living in the west. The MCA was setup and funded by ex KMT, white wash all you like, thick and thin! Singapore sent its armed forces to Taiwan for annual joint exercises 10,000 at a time, go figure! Oh and you missed the bit about how the 'other' China, the real one according to the KMT, providing copious amounts of help to stave off the rivers of Chinese blood, oh maybe it wasn't mentioned because they did nothing!

Finally, you either have a foreign policy of non-interference in other country's internal affairs or you don't!
 
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