Ladakh Flash Point
- Thread starter Mt1701d
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So India moves troops from the Pakistan border to the Chinese border? As far as I'm concerned, that's good. Because China and the Himalayas can handle those additional 50k Indian troops. First, it would be relieving a lot of pressure on Pakistan. Second, unlike invading Pakistan, invading China via the Himalayas is a whole different animal. China is a far superior adversary and the Himalayas is a far more punishing environment than the India-Pakistan borderlands.
So does India desires to march its troops to Lhasa? Please do, India would be doing Asia a big favour. Just like Hitler dreaming of marching German troops into Moscow. India is more than welcomed to try that with Lhasa. China had faced far superior enemies at far worse odds. India will be the first nation to invade mainland China proper since Imperial Japan in WW2. Indian troops would be the invaders facing PLA troops fighting on their very own motherland. There is no second-guessing on the morale of the PLA soldiers. Jai Hinds can say all they like that PLA troops are inexperienced spoiled brats. If Galwan wasn't the wake up call, then India is more then welcomed to try more of what the PLA can offer. India would suffer a defeat that could rival or surpass 1962. But this time, China might not be as forgiving in victory.
Pakistan might not need to invade India when its troops are mostly focused on China. When this scandalous Indian military prestige is finally exposed by China, South Asia would change. Then the people of Kashmir, Nagaland, etc would no longer fear the Indian army as before. Things in India will get really interesting. Wait for India to blame Pakistan and China, and then let the proxy wars begin. At that time, India will get a taste of its own medicine.
Please move all discussion about India invading Lhasa and Tibet general to the fiction and storytelling section.
I don't think the Jai Hinds and the BJP nut jobs in power have any sense of wisdom. If they did, this thread wouldn't be as extensive as it is today. If honest and sane Indians cannot convince them out of their insane path, what hope is there for a 'CPC mouthpiece' to do so? The era of civil China-India engagement is over, I'm afraid.
India invading Lhasa is only a fiction thanks to the PLA. But this is not storytelling. It is an actual historical desire by the right-wingers of India. One of their biggest motivations in this border conflict with China. Are these not related to the current India-China conflict since 2020? Do you think India would stop after Aksai Chin?
The former Air Chief of the IAF makes it no secret that India covets Lhasa.
Is this fiction?
Please tell us how this is fiction, and how this is not related to the India-China border clash?
India, unlike China is not the defending side here. India covets all of Kashmir including Aksai Chin and finally Tibet itself. Will India realize it? Off course never. But it is a motivation, an unattainable goal that compels India to do things that we had seen above. It may be harmless for now, but who is betting that it will stay like this for forever? India have already thrown ethnic Tibetan soldiers to the frontlines of Ladakh already! With some serious backing from Uncle Sam, India could be empowered to do more with its 'Tibet card'.
You are doing a good job fact checking those Indian clown-trolls over their fake Google Maps and fake news that they dump to this thread. But we need some other things to discuss about too. Otherwise, this place just gets boring.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I would not take transparent Indian attention shifting seriously.
Recent developments are little more than Modi trying to create distractions and a unified front in the face of his own catastrophic mishandling of the covid disaster.
The hipsters planning to storm Area 51 would have better chances of success than the Indian army dreaming of invading China proper and hoping to actually hold their initial gains.
China actually had a very good chance to trigger the Indians into invading and massively overreaching pretty much any time it wants.
Current PLA policy is to rush reinforcements to the boarder as soon as the Indians get uppity to deter their idiotic adventurism.
One can easily see the Indian being baited into making idiotic moves they are not ready or prepared for if the PLA simply break with that pattern and don’t rush in reinforcements next time the Indians get uppity.
Recent developments are little more than Modi trying to create distractions and a unified front in the face of his own catastrophic mishandling of the covid disaster.
The hipsters planning to storm Area 51 would have better chances of success than the Indian army dreaming of invading China proper and hoping to actually hold their initial gains.
China actually had a very good chance to trigger the Indians into invading and massively overreaching pretty much any time it wants.
Current PLA policy is to rush reinforcements to the boarder as soon as the Indians get uppity to deter their idiotic adventurism.
One can easily see the Indian being baited into making idiotic moves they are not ready or prepared for if the PLA simply break with that pattern and don’t rush in reinforcements next time the Indians get uppity.
As much as many in this forum are over-hyping the Chinese leaderships' 'farsightedness' and 'preparedness' as if they are some all-knowing, omniscient beings who are infallible, I believe that China might be actually committing a far graver mistake by letting a so-called 'lesser power' constantly stand up to it and letting the 'lesser power' control the International narrative to its advantage.
That 'lesser-power' will continue to be a huge Thorn on its side unless it is plucked out soon. In fact, that Thorn may actually grow to become a Hammer that can do a lot of damage.
Keep harping about how powerful China is compared to India, how China can crush India at a moments notice, and that no amount of Indian capability or determination can even make a dent in the "Chinese Power' so much so that India is dismissed as a mere irritant not worthy of any action. At the end of the day, India has a huge standing military with formidable capabilities which can definitely cause China great harm. In fact, India has literally 'fight' China to a standstill at the border, in most people's eyes.
The longer India keeps its belligerence at the Border, the more it enhances its 'standing' in the world, and the more it projects the image of 'defending' a 'Democratic' nation against an aggressive 'Communist' nation. India will only garner more sympathy as time goes by, and I definitely see the possibility of the US an NATO starting to provide real 'hardware' and 'training' etc. to India to counter China.
If the Chinese leaders were in fact Farsighted, they should in fact strike India such a blow at the border and slightly beyond, that will be seen by the whole world and from which India will take decades to recover, if ever.
Barring something like that, India will only keep growing, just as China will keep growing.
India has already outrightly declared China as an enemy, Look at a statement from this article; " The centrality of the Biden Initiative is the need for nations to unit.US-China rivalry has become acutely tangible post Covid 19 Pandemic. In actuality, the tussle precipitates between the ideas of a Free World as against a ruthless communist regime. The choice is ours. We either unite and act or remain passive and are enslaved. It is the ultimate fight of the ‘Good versus Evil’. There are ten major weaknesses of China, which the West or the ‘Good’ should exploit. Additionally, India’s role happens to be pivotal)".
Maybe China will continue to grow or maybe its economy will slow down, none can predict the future. My believe is that, the moment India believes it has a chance to cause disruption in Tibet and among other ethnic minorities within China, India will not hesitate. If India even gains the slightest advantage over China, at some time in the future, India will not hesitate to strike and humiliate China.
As farfetched and fictional as it might seem, why wait for such a day to happen? Why not take action now when China has the upper hand in every conceivable dimension?
Or is there some underlying weakness we do not know of?
Why spend Billlions on the Military with so many new fancy 'toys' if you do not have the gumption to even use it to protect your own border?
As I have stated before, Yes China is great, China is doing well, China is powerful, and I truly want China to grow and become a balancing factor to the U.S and the western-dominated Global order. I just feel that, maybe China lacks that extra factor that will propel it to become a true military 'superpower'. US has that factor in abundance, Russia has it, even the UK has it (though it is not as powerful),China seems to lack that factor, which maybe due to lack of confidence.
India will be a dangerous threat to China, even an existential one ( in that India will not hesitate to join forces to split and trample on China), unless China soon vanquishes India's delusional dreams of Grandiose Power once and for all.
Agreed that China is pretty stupid allowing India to keep attacking it without consequences. Like what self-respecting country allow another country to attack it multiple times without imposing them costs.
China idiotically believes on this whole "muh civilization friendship" bs, they always like to be seen as a benevolent power that it will "forgive" the "inexperienced" India.
Bunch of bs. Simples. You get attacked then you respond and grab a nice piece of land and then go for peace WITHOUT giving the land back. If they come back again, then you grab another, larger piece of land and keep repeating that process.
China's military strategy towards India has been idotic and self-harmful. Hopefully China's leaders have learnt their lesson this time around.
Jai Hind dont respect anything, so next time grab a lot of strategic valuable land
I hear and to some extent share your concerns when it comes to the perceived timidity of the PLA initiating "decisive battle" to teach the Indians a lesson and to a greater degree the assumed victory against the IAF would send a strong and clear message that China will not hesitate to act and use force whenever it wants. But such actions would only invite further strong resistance and may actually emboldened and give countries that were ambivalent to take sides or were even sympathetic to China -- contrary to your opinion since the news you read and consume are all primed for western audiences -- but would now have the raison d'etre to move against China solidifying the propaganda that Communist China is out to subjugate the world.
I am also just going to leave this passage from the current book am reading on the current China vs U.S. strategic struggle. The book's titled is Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides Trap? by Graham Allison.
From page 310/751
"Although it will treat warfare as a last resort, should China conclude that long-term trend lines are no longer moving in its favor and that it is losing bargaining power, it could initiate a limited military conflict to teach an adversary a lesson. As political scientist Taylor Fravel has shown in a study of its twenty-three territorial disputes since 1949, China employed force in only three of them. As these cases suggest, China becomes more likely to resort to force if it believes an adversary is shifting the balance of forces against it at a time of domestic unrest. In his analysis of Beijing’s attacks on India in 1962, the Soviet Union in 1969, and Vietnam in 1979, Fravel also demonstrates that China tends to use its military against opponents of comparable or greater strength, while it is more willing to negotiate with weaker adversaries."
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