Chinese Economics Thread

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
How about at night when everybody at home cooking and turn on AC and watching TV? Can solar supply during that time?

And also in the morning when there is no sun yet ... how about cloudy day, etc, etc

This is specifically in the context of electricity shortages RIGHT NOW due to air conditioning use which is mostly used during the day.
Air conditioning is the primary source of residential electricity demand during the summer in Southern China.

Air conditioning demand decreases in the evening and drops even lower at night-time.
Cloudy days reduce the demand for electricity-hungry air conditioning.

There aren't electricity shortages at night-time, because the existing baseload coal plants are adequate.

But can you build a coal power plant next week?
You can deploy extra solar panels faster than any other electricity source.

Even faster would be a mobile grid-scale battery park, which stores excess night-time electricity, and discharges electricity during daytime air-conditioning usage peaks
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Hopefully the supply chain of nuclear plants can increase its production capacity in order to be able to build more nuclear plants per year

China's energy needs are simply huge. The way the nuclear ramp up is planned, it won't be enough to cover demand.
It will just be used to clean up the air pollution around major population centers somewhat.

Electricity consumption is still growing at a really fast rate. Only coal can keep up with demand.
I expect China to move to natural gas near major urban centers. It should be a mix of nuclear and natural gas.
Coal will be moved farther away from population centers and the electricity transmission grid will continue to increase.

Only recently did the Chinese nuclear industry get good enough at building their own nuclear reactor designs.
The designs that should be used in the large scale nuclear ramp up, like the CAP1400, still have not been built and tested.
The nuclear ramp up should only properly start around the 2030s.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
China's energy needs are simply huge. The way the nuclear ramp up is planned, it won't be enough to cover demand.
It will just be used to clean up the air pollution around major population centers somewhat.

Electricity consumption is still growing at a really fast rate. Only coal can keep up with demand.
I expect China to move to natural gas near major urban centers. It should be a mix of nuclear and natural gas.
Coal will be moved farther away from population centers and the electricity grid transmission will continue to increase.

Only recently did the Chinese nuclear industry get good enough at building their own nuclear reactor designs.
The designs that should be used in the large scale nuclear ramp up, like the AP1400, still have not been built and tested.
The nuclear ramp up should only properly start around the 2030s.
Isnt Hualong One supposed to be the main nuclear reactor design now in China?

I assumed they would mass produce this design as its a fully owned domestic IP and from what I have read it seems quite good.

Fast and modern building processes, good supply chain etc
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Isnt Hualong One supposed to be the main nuclear reactor design now in China?
I assumed they would mass produce this design as its a fully owned domestic IP and from what I have read it seems quite good.
Fast and modern building processes, good supply chain etc

Hualong One (HPR1000) is based on French reactor designs. It is better than what they used to have.
CAP1400 is based on US AP1000 reactor design. It should be cheaper to build and produce more power.
It might even be scaled up further to 1700 MWe (CAP1700). Hualong One is like 1100 MWe.

The AP1000 reactor design is simpler than the design the French use. It has way less complex pumps for cooling for example.

Nuclear power gets more cost effective the larger the reactor is. Other countries use smaller reactors because they either don't have enough power requirements to build reactors that huge or cannot afford the huge upfront capital investments to build something that large. China is going for the biggest reactors they can build.

The Hualong One should be used for most of the construction done over the next decade but I think the CAP1400 will take over after that.
 
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steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
There aren't electricity shortages at night-time, because the existing baseload coal plants are adequate.

There are some pretty simple and effective ways of storing electric energy without resorting to large batteries.

1622555289902.png

You can run a pump to push water upstream into a damn, during day light hours.

Then when the sun goes down, let gravity pull the water back down to meet peak demand.

There are a number of ways to store energy using these simple mechanical/gravity methods.

Also, Chinese are leaders in clean coal energy solutions. Not all coal energy are equally dirty.
 

Strangelove

Colonel
Registered Member
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The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development has raised its forecast for China’s economic growth this year to 8.5 percent, up from a 7.8 percent prediction in March, saying investment remains a key growth engine as consumption gradually recovers.

Next year’s growth is likely to be 5.8 percent, the Paris-based agency said in its latest Economic Outlook report released yesterday, up from a previous forecast of 4.9 percent.

“Growth in 2021 will be strong and return to the gradually slowing pre-pandemic path thereafter,” the OECD said in the report.

High export demand will keep industry busy, while surging prices of imported raw materials will have only a limited affect on consumer price inflation because of the low import content of consumption, the OECD said. Investment and exports will remain strong, as construction projects restart and overseas demand picks up.

The OECD also lifted its outlook for the global economy to 5.8 percent this year from 5.6 percent, and 4.4 percent next year from 4 percent.

Rising vaccination rates in China will boost consumer confidence in the country, but to achieve a sustainable pickup, the social welfare net needs to be strengthened. Though China has implemented strict measures to keep the coronavirus under control, the OECD still advises extensive vaccination coverage to underpin a full economic recovery.

Vaccination uptake in China has not been as fast as expected, as the lower chance of getting infected has discouraged people from getting inoculated, even though some local governments offer benefits such as free pick-up services. Even if, as expected, 40% of the population is covered by early summer, there is still a long way to go to before so-called herd immunity is reached at about 70%.

“Monetary policy is assumed to turn more neutral as the recovery firms,” the OECD said, while “fiscal policy will provide less support than in 2020 as the recovery is solid in most sectors.”

"Investment and exports will remain robust as infrastructure projects restart and foreign demand recovers,” it said. “The current account surplus is projected to rise further as a result and as the recovery of tourism imports is delayed.”

A faster pace of corporate defaults will “improve risk pricing, but may adversely affect banks and trust companies, as well as other private and institutional investors,” the report added.

Restricting access to the corporate bond market for local government investments will help contain corporate debt as well as reduce contingent liabilities at the local government level. Improved regulations by credit rating agencies will cause rating dispersion, and provide investors with better guidance, the OECD said.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
There are some pretty simple and effective ways of storing electric energy without resorting to large batteries.

View attachment 72817

You can run a pump to push water upstream into a damn, during day light hours.

Then when the sun goes down, let gravity pull the water back down to meet peak demand.

There are a number of ways to store energy using these simple mechanical/gravity methods.

Also, Chinese are leaders in clean coal energy solutions. Not all coal energy are equally dirty.

Pumped hydro storage is the ideal solution in terms of cost and efficiency.

The problem is a lack of suitable sites for this to happen.
 
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