China demographics thread.

[AndrewS]

You guys are really underestimating Indians. Underestimating people solely due to race or ethnicity is pretty stupid. Most people are on average the same intelligence regardless of ethnicity. Institutions, upbringing and education matter far more than nationality. Here in the US, Indians are by far the highest earning group, they make a lot more than us Chinese, plus they are by far the most educated. Indians are very successful here.

That's not entirely accurate.

Whilst the best Indians are the equal of anyone, there are so very few of them.

India's institutions, upbringing and education of children is awful.

For example in 2014, 38% of Indian children were physically stunted due to malnutrition, which retards healthy brain development and learning during lessons.

And in the 5 years from 2014-2019, malnutrition had somehow gotten worse despite moderate economic growth in India.
That is how much the Indian *elite* cares about its less fortunate citizens.

Plus since 2020, poverty has skyrocketed in India due to the pandemic.
I reckon India has lost at a minimum of 5 years of development so far.

But back to your point of the USA importing large numbers of Indians.
There are only 18 million Indians who live on more than $600 per month, which I reckon is indicative of a white-collar job or university education.
And those *elite* Indians will import the same mindset they grew up with in India

Sources below

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[hkbc]

You guys are really underestimating Indians. Underestimating people solely due to race or ethnicity is pretty stupid. Most people are on average the same intelligence regardless of ethnicity. Institutions, upbringing and education matter far more than nationality. Here in the US, Indians are by far the highest earning group, they make a lot more than us Chinese, plus they are by far the most educated. Indians are very successful here.

Don't think everyone's underestimating Indians, but India has some serious issues which the Indian Elites are unable or unwilling to address. I think people have an issue with India and its overestimation of itself, rather than an under estimation of Indians as a people.

India loves to compare it self with other countries but contrasted with China which went through its series of turmoils in the 50s, 60s and 70s to come out of the other end the way it has, is a bit of a fairy tale if it wasn't happening in front of your eyes, India's story seems to be more a cautionary fable you tell your kids.

As an observer noted 'Every year 140 million people leave China to visit the world and almost all of them go back' is that a sentiment that can be said of India and Indians? Are the 1% in the US you are asking not to be underestimated simply economic migrants hollowing out a country that would do better if they and their skills remained to fight the good fight! The fact they don't maybe says more about their estimation of their motherland than anything you or I can verbalise.

 

[HybridHypothesis]

You guys are really underestimating Indians. Underestimating people solely due to race or ethnicity is pretty stupid. Most people are on average the same intelligence regardless of ethnicity. Institutions, upbringing and education matter far more than nationality. Here in the US, Indians are by far the highest earning group, they make a lot more than us Chinese, plus they are by far the most educated. Indians are very successful here.

Tamils (who make up the overwhelming majority of high performing Indians) are not to be confused with the rest of the population.

Generally speaking, the higher quality a population is, the lower its birthrate these days.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

You guys are really underestimating Indians. Underestimating people solely due to race or ethnicity is pretty stupid. Most people are on average the same intelligence regardless of ethnicity. Institutions, upbringing and education matter far more than nationality. Here in the US, Indians are by far the highest earning group, they make a lot more than us Chinese, plus they are by far the most educated. Indians are very successful here.

I mean, I could say the same thing about Filipinos who are listed as amongst the top earners of Asians in the group and in some cases actually earn more than their Chinese-American counterparts, now would that one set of income data suggest to you that the Philippines as a country is being undervalued, underappreciated and the Filipinos being underestimated as an ethnic group as well. The successes of different Asian ethnic groups in the U.S. show that they can pretty much compete, hustle, and from time to time beat other ethnic groups on key economic indicators which mean that their respective countries lack of actual tangible, solid, consistent economic rate of progress are hindered by their current political systems and or culture embedded and meshed on their respective countries.

The system that China has worked and is currently shown to work despite what many in the west and to some Chinese liberal white worshipping simps may think or must love to happen. India, Filipinos or just about any other ethnic groups out there are more than capable of achieving what other countries have manage to achieve given the right set of political and economic system. It's like an obese, unhealthy person trying to lose weight just by simply exercising rigorously and vigorously while eating m&m's, munching on donuts, ice cream etc..expecting to lose the excess weight in time. If the system is corrosive to one's core objectives nothing will and can be achieve regardless of how many times one eat, sleep, and shit western propaganda and feel good speech from motivational speakers like Tim Robbins?

 

[gadgetcool5]

I mean, I could say the same thing about Filipinos who are listed as amongst the top earners of Asians in the group and in some cases actually earn more than their Chinese-American counterparts, now would that one set of income data suggest to you that the Philippines as a country is being undervalued, underappreciated and the Filipinos being underestimated as an ethnic group as well.

No you cannot say the same thing about Filipinos. Although I have nothing against Filipinos no one compares to Indians:

Indians are ridiculously successful man, no one else even comes close. Which is why when I see all the posts here mocking Indians it's weird.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

No you cannot say the same thing about Filipinos. Although I have nothing against Filipinos no one compares to Indians:

Indians are ridiculously successful man, no one else even comes close. Which is why when I see all the posts here mocking Indians it's weird.

But Indians are not monolithic as an ethnic group in India nor do they share the same common religion even though the current government is heavy on pushing and propagandizing Hindu nationalism. Don't treat India as a single entity or a civilizational state because it never was. The successful Indians are from upper caste of the country of which they are many. That arrangement itself is reflected in their military, government, civic officials etc. which is why the country is being heavily criticized or mocked by some including myself.

You ought to visit India and see the country for yourself and then revisit your theory.

 

[AndrewS]

No you cannot say the same thing about Filipinos. Although I have nothing against Filipinos no one compares to Indians:

Indians are ridiculously successful man, no one else even comes close. Which is why when I see all the posts here mocking Indians it's weird.

It is selection bias at work.

20 years ago, there were barely any Indians in the USA.
Since then, Indian migration to the USA has mostly come through a limited number of highly-skilled work visas and through the universities.

In comparison, the Chinese have been in the US a lot longer and mostly came in much poorer groups.

A better comparison would be to use the UK, which has been open to both Indian and Chinese immigration for much longer prior to entry requirements. But more recent arrivals are subject to the same entry criteria in terms of highly-skilled work permits and university education requirements.

It shows Chinese immigrants outperforming Indians

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[Bellum_Romanum]

Exax

It is selection bias at work.

20 years ago, there were barely any Indians in the USA.
Since then, Indian migration to the USA has mostly come through a limited number of highly-skilled work visas.

A better comparison would be to use the UK, which has been open to both Indian and Chinese immigration for much longer, and with similar entry criteria.

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Exactly.

 

[Jiang ZeminFanboy]

This is why when I see the sources where all this fatalistic talk about China comes from (Western media), I chuckle a little. If China is fucked, the West is triple fucked. That being said, China should still try its best to fix any problem that arrises.

Why make claim when you don't know the demographic situation in China.

No, it's the other way around, if the west is fucked, China is triple fucked.

Do you even know the TFR of China and e.g. the USA?

USA 2020 TFR ~ 1.6

China census 2010 - TFR 1.18, 2020 census year, TFR probably between 1.0 and 1.1.

 

[sinophilia]

No you cannot say the same thing about Filipinos. Although I have nothing against Filipinos no one compares to Indians:

Indians are ridiculously successful man, no one else even comes close. Which is why when I see all the posts here mocking Indians it's weird.

Maybe pull your head out of your butt and realize that Indian diaspora populations in the US and other Anglo countries are TINY and hardly representative of almost 1.4 billion people? They brain-drained the living hell out of India. One can also look at Nigeria as being a country of geniuses, pray tell me what their incomes are in the UK and US? I bet much higher than average White income and even average Asian income.

The more a nations diaspora over-excels the native counties abilities, the more likely it relates to the level of brain drain of that country (probably the poor and more hopeless the country the more likely they are going to have a higher % of their smartest people move to Anglo countries). I have no doubt if China had the standard of living of India then all the smartest Chinese would be moving to America, Canada, UK, Australia, and therefore would score much higher than Indians.

Also would like to mention that incomes do not perfectly equate to intelligence or work ethic or innovation. If you look at CEO demographics for example East Asians are underrepresented (

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) because they “communicate less assertively” relative to both Whites and South Asians.

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We provide evidence that the leadership attainment gap between EAs and SAs is not due to differences in motivation or prejudice: EAs were neither less hardworking nor less motivated to take on leadership roles than SAs, and SAs actually faced greater prejudice than EAs. Similarly, this leadership attainment gap could not be explained by demographics such as birth country, English fluency, education level, and SES. Instead, cultural differences in assertiveness consistently explained the leadership attainment gap, suggesting that EAs are less likely to attain leadership positions partly because their low assertiveness is incongruent with how leaders are expected to communicate in the United States.