Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[voyager1]

That is a over-simplistic statement and strange conclusion. China was never a big drug maker in normal time, and its export of drug in the world is ignorable. Then over the sudden it is doing a "bad" job in the field that it was never specialized? You can check who is the top drug producers and compare their current vaccine production and export figure than compare them to China, then tell who is doing a bad job compared to how good they should have been. FYI, US was always a top drug maker, in the same way as China being the world factory in other sectors. They are all doing what they are good at.

"relative to size" is another name of "per capital" which is pointless in many ways. If you only acknowledge "per capital" as a benchmark, how about China has equal number of SSN, CVN, ICBM, CO2 emission, Car ownership per capital as the USA? Or that is just crazy by all means?

It doesn't matter. What matters is the end result. Which is that China is lagging behind and it will cede ground to the US in economic terms.

Per capita SSN, CVN, ICBMS would probably cost China hundreds of billions of dollars. While production capacity for vaccines is at most at high one digits or very low 2 digits billions of dollars. There is no comparison here.

China wanted to be stingy with its money and thats why its production capacity lags behind.
Note that this is only for production, for vaccine development they were very very good, but it seems they dropped the ball here.

Note that the US, despite its shambles of covid containment spent dozen(s) of billions for their vaccines. Why is the US ramping up so much and China cant do even more than it, keeping in mind that China's pop is 4.5 times more than the US

 

[taxiya]

It doesn't matter. What matters is the end result. Which is that China is lagging behind and it will cede ground to the US in economic terms.

Per capita SSN, CVN, ICBMS would probably cost China hundreds of billions of dollars. While production capacity for vaccines is at most at high one digits or very low 2 digits billions of dollars. There is no comparison here.

China wanted to be stingy with its money and thats why its production capacity lags behind.
Note that this is only for production, for vaccine development they were very very good, but it seems they dropped the ball here.

Note that the US, despite its shambles of covid containment spent dozen(s) of billions for their vaccines. Why is the US ramping up so much and China cant do even more than it, keeping in mind that China's pop is 4.5 times more than the US

The end result is that so far, China exports vaccines at the same level of the rest exporters combined. The end result is also expected that by the end of 2021, China's production capacity is to cover the whole Chinese population. In the mean time fulfill the need of friendly countries. The end result is NOT to compete with "per capital production" with anyone.

The notion of bringing in "per capital" is akin to having the most ICBM per capital which is absurd. My mention of per capital ICBMs etc is not to compare, but to point out how absurd this "per capital everything" is. The real need (for every person) is the only reason of production, not a size competition with anybody.

It is Chinese money, Chinese want to spend its money wisely. I don't care if you call China stingy because its not your money. China is not going to waste the hard-earned money for "vaccine race" just like China is not getting into an arm race, call whatever you will.

You seem to enjoy getting China into every tit-for-tat competition or confrontation with whichever country you "dislike"? I say this based on your posts not only in this thread but other subjects as well, such as "it is time to treat Japan as enemy now", "get central Asia out of Russian hand when Russia is squeezed by the west" etc. But remember, China, the Chinese population and their strengths and wealth are not yours to squander and used to beat your enemies.

To be honest, I am a bit annoyed by your constant "combative" suggestions that China should compete and beat whoever in whatever aspects, so here comes my last response on this particular subject.

 

[voyager1]

The end result is that so far, China exports vaccines at the same level of the rest exporters combined. The end result is also expected that by the end of 2021, China's production capacity is to cover the whole Chinese population. In the mean time fulfill the need of friendly countries. The end result is NOT to compete with "per capital production" with anyone.

The notion of bringing in "per capital" is akin to having the most ICBM per capital which is absurd. My mention of per capital ICBMs etc is not to compare, but to point out how absurd this "per capital everything" is. The real need (for every person) is the only reason of production, not a size competition with anybody.

It is Chinese money, Chinese want to spend its money wisely. I don't care if you call China stingy because its not your money. China is not going to waste the hard-earned money for "vaccine race" just like China is not getting into an arm race, call whatever you will.

You seem to enjoy getting China into every tit-for-tat competition or confrontation with whichever country you "dislike"? I say this based on your posts not only in this thread but other subjects as well, such as "it is time to treat Japan as enemy now", "get central Asia out of Russian hand when Russia is squeezed by the west" etc. But remember, China, the Chinese population and their strengths and wealth are not yours to squander and used to beat your enemies.

To be honest, I am a bit annoyed by your constant "combative" suggestions that China should compete and beat whoever in whatever aspects, so here comes my last response on this particular subject.

Lmao dont you know about economics? China is a ~16 Trillion dollar country. Do you not understand that a day sooner that China manages to open up completely will save it multiple times of the vaccine cost?

Who cares about end of the year man? The US is going to open up its borders on around start of June, while China will have its own borders closed. The US will mop the floor versus China because it will have been open for at least 5 months earlier than China.

Go and congratulate all you want that China will cover its population at the end of the year. Meanwhile, the rest of the world will be fully open and vaccinated, generating foreign investments, tourism, business travel, more consumption because they trust that the virus is gone (China also has this problem)

You might think that China is the best and that it handled everything correctly but this is not true.

They were the best on Covid containment and average on vaccine production. Per capita vaccine production is obviously important here because China must vaccinate its people ASAP because it must compete economically with the US which has 4.5 times less population, and the EU which has 3(?) times less its population

Keep on believing the propaganda. Fact is, that the US will rocket past the rest of the world on growth(printing dollars will also help...) because it will be the first major economy to open its international borders and it will have increased domestic consumption. China meanwhile can wait till the end of the year, lmao. Keep waiting

 

[plawolf]

COVID-19 vaccine production and export as of 4/15/2012:

Those figures feels wrong, especially the Chinese ones.

Looking at this source, it says China has administered 188m doses, so total manufacturing of 196m doesn’t make sense given you would expect China to keep a sizeable strategic reserve of vaccines in case of a major local outbreak so they could surge vaccines as part of their containment and eradicate efforts.

Lowish vaccination figures in China would make perfect sense since those are largely done on a voluntary basis in China given the extremely low risk of catching it in China, and the significant possibility that vaccine immunity will be time limited, in addition to the risk of new variants being resistant to existing vaccines.

Given all that, it makes perfect sense for China to not rush to vaccinate its population prematurely. As best case from doing so would be to waste hundreds of millions of doses desperately needed elsewhere; and worst case could be that new variants require new vaccines with added risk and complications from people getting different vaccine types in short order.

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[solarz]

Who cares about end of the year man? The US is going to open up its borders on around start of June, while China will have its own borders closed. The US will mop the floor versus China because it will have been open for at least 5 months earlier than China.

Go and congratulate all you want that China will cover its population at the end of the year. Meanwhile, the rest of the world will be fully open and vaccinated, generating foreign investments, tourism, business travel, more consumption because they trust that the virus is gone (China also has this problem)

That's completely moronic. If the rest of the world can control covid will enough to be safe, then why would China continue to close it's borders?

 

[voyager1]

That's completely moronic. If the rest of the world can control covid will enough to be safe, then why would China continue to close it's borders?

Because no vaccine can completely assure that there not a single infection. If the virus started spreading in a vaccinated US nothing would happen because they are all vaccinated and there would be an extremely low number of hospitalisations. So these people who might be infected, would also have their vaccination card.

When these people travel to China (if it opens its borders), then this guy could start infecting the locals and it would be a big problem because China wasn't vaccinated.

Now China could start requiring negative tests, quarantines etc, but this wouldn't help much the economy because who wants to be quarantined for 2 weeks to visit China when the US is open and you can just fly there with 0 restrictions?

 

[winword]

Because no vaccine can completely assure that there not a single infection. If the virus started spreading in a vaccinated US nothing would happen because they are all vaccinated and there would be an extremely low number of hospitalisations. So these people who might be infected, would also have their vaccination card.

When these people travel to China (if it opens its borders), then this guy could start infecting the locals and it would be a big problem because China wasn't vaccinated.

Now China could start requiring negative tests, quarantines etc, but this wouldn't help much the economy because who wants to be quarantined for 2 weeks to visit China when the US is open and you can just fly there with 0 restrictions?

The total contribution of international tourists accounted for ~1% of the tourism industry in China in 2019. The rest of the economy wasn't really bothered by the quarantine policy (see 2021 Q1 growth).

 

[voyager1]

The total contribution of international tourists accounted for ~1% of the tourism industry in China in 2019. The rest of the economy wasn't really bothered by the quarantine policy (see 2021 Q1 growth).

I dont care too much about tourism. What I find more important is business travel for investments,.commercial partnerships, mergers etc

There is also about international business conferences, educational exchanges, technlogical seminars etc.

There is a Lot of stuff happening with travel. To be left closed when the rest of the developed world is open, is very bad for the country in regards to technology, education, collaboration etc. This is very complex and in most of the times (if not always), face to face is superior to other forms of communication

 

[winword]

I dont care too much about tourism. What I find more important is business travel for investments,.commercial partnerships, mergers etc

There is also about international business conferences, educational exchanges, technlogical seminars etc.

There is a Lot of stuff happening with travel. To be left closed when the rest of the developed world is open, is very bad for the country in regards to technology, education, collaboration etc. This is very complex and in most of the times (if not always), face to face is superior to other forms of communication

Be patient pls, 40% will be vaccinated by June.

 

[solarz]

Because no vaccine can completely assure that there not a single infection. If the virus started spreading in a vaccinated US nothing would happen because they are all vaccinated and there would be an extremely low number of hospitalisations. So these people who might be infected, would also have their vaccination card.

When these people travel to China (if it opens its borders), then this guy could start infecting the locals and it would be a big problem because China wasn't vaccinated.

Now China could start requiring negative tests, quarantines etc, but this wouldn't help much the economy because who wants to be quarantined for 2 weeks to visit China when the US is open and you can just fly there with 0 restrictions?

You still don't get it, even after a year.

China controls covid through rigorous contact tracing. This is why even though there have been numerous local outbreaks, they've all been stamped out quickly. They do not rely solely on border controls.

Once the world is sufficiently vaccinated to control covid, it would be a simple matter of requiring proof of vaccination and/or negative tests to be allowed into China.