Chinese Economics Thread

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
O-RAN is a software approach for 5G. While the rest of the world build hardware for 5G, the O-RAN way is to use software to use existing infrastructure to.enable 5G

While this might look logical to you, the software approach is hilariously bad because some estimates say that it will need millions and millions lines of code to make it work, and it would be full of vulnerabilities due to the complex software

IMO O-RAN is another way for the US companies to milk the government of billions of dollars without having to, shock!, manufacture anything and they can just use software lol
And @B.I.B.

It is not what you think. Read here,
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O-RAN ALLIANCE has been founded in February 2018 by AT&T, China Mobile, Deutsche Telekom, NTT DOCOMO and Orange. It has been established as a German entity in August 2018.

ORAN is a consortium of operators to take control of what pieces of Radio Access Network HW and/or SW from whoever they may choose instead of being bound to a supplier, therefor control the price. It is telecom operators (trying to let in new element suppliers) against traditional system suppliers.

You are right about ORAN's technical problem. It is extremely inefficient both SW wise and HW wise that lead to its ultimate shortcoming "energy consumption" for doing the same job. So far, no system suppliers have taken up this approach but only paying lip services so not to upset the operators.

Lastly, it has nothing to do with companies from any specific country. All operators want to dictate the price setting and reduce their suppliers to slaves.
 

sndef888

Senior Member
Registered Member
Any news about when the Chengdu-Lhasa railway will begin operation?

Hoping it makes more non-Tibetans move in to develop the area. It's currently way too sparsely populated to be defended against foreign interference and invasion

Turn it into a chinese switzerland, let people own some cheap vacation homes there
 

sndef888

Senior Member
Registered Member
Also, is it just me or do China's cities feel very concretised and industrial? Even tiny cities like Lhasa and other 3rd tiers have so many high rises and concrete all around, compared to places like southeast asia where there are many quaint little low rises.

Yet, China's cities don't seem to save all that much space. Look at Lhasa for example, it uses the land size of a pretty large city
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Also, is it just me or do China's cities feel very concretised and industrial? Even tiny cities like Lhasa and other 3rd tiers have so many high rises and concrete all around, compared to places like southeast asia where there are many quaint little low rises.

Yet, China's cities don't seem to save all that much space. Look at Lhasa for example, it uses the land size of a pretty large city
isn't that because of the Huge population? Unless you want to spread out the city too much ala US, you need to have high-density housing
 

sndef888

Senior Member
Registered Member
isn't that because of the Huge population? Unless you want to spread out the city too much ala US, you need to have high-density housing
Yeah that's the thing I'm having a bit of trouble comprehending.

Kuala Lumpur (the city proper) has sooo many short buildings, terrace houses, shophouses and so little commie block style high rises yet can fit ~2million people into around 250km2 while Lhasa only has ~1 million in around 500km2 yet is filled with high rises

Is there some magic to KL's planning or am I just misinterpreting the numbers?
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Sorry but thats not how it works mate. For Russia's economy, the 50 billion is a lot of money. But for the EU 100 billion is nothing because their collective GDP is around 18 Trillion dollars. For them they dont care so much.

And lets not forget that all these Russians have idiotically stored their wealth in the EU. Guess what, the second something happens, the EU will freeze these funds and say goodbye to the money and the companies.

There is just no way to fight this. The mistake was ultimately from Putin who allowed the corrupt Russians to move their wealth outside Russia, so that now these money can be frozen in EU banks..

Anyway, this is offtopic so I will stop here. If you want we can continue on the Breaking News World thread
As you say off topic but you don't get to propagate propaganda, it is how it works that's the cost not the direction of travel as long as Russia grows faster than its inflation its fine, and if the EU doesn't its not, all the crap about where Russia is storing its wealth when it converted its state holdings in dollars to gold is more irrelevance the oligarch capital flight happened long ago, the Russian state doesn't store its wealth in Europe, Russian citizens may choose to but that's their choice. Bottom line all your various posts amount to advocating Jurche, how well has that worked out for North Korea!

Not a fan of Putin but props to the guy he's played a weak hand really well, if he's as incompetent as you claim the West wouldn't be demonising him at every opportunity and trying their level best to remove him, rather leave him in place and wait for the implosion.

My last word on the topic, you can spew whatever stream of thought you like now, but at least people reading it will now have a reference point and be able to gauge the level of insight it may or may not contain!
 

SimaQian

Junior Member
Registered Member
Mark my word ; if China were to nationalize this, nationalize that, China will never be able to overtake the US. That is what the US hopes for ; China reverting back to Maoism.

It will be a great disincentive to the great industrialists/entrepreneurs of China to take their companies to greater heights if they know that once they grow their companies beyond a certain size, the government will seize them . Those who advocate for such measures are playing right into the hands of the Americans who indeed will be rubbing their hands with glee. Self goal !

China(PRC) is founded by Chairman Mao on the promise that the peasants, the masses, will have more egalitarian lives - the difference between the rich and the poor is minimum. (This is aside from the major nationalistic reason to kick out the foreign invaders and unite China). This was the selling point of the revolution. And he delivered it. The land owning and merchant class were abolished, people life expectancy increased almost twice, literacy increased and healthcare was even free and population increase significantly under Mao. He even made women equal to men by declaring they hold half of the sky (This is an understatement provided that women had a very low status for thousands of years in China prior to Mao era. Women were tradable just like cows or chickens and cannot hold education. If Chinese women were not liberated, it would be similar to India where cows are more valuable than women.) And when Mao died, he didnt have a bank account nor money that his surviving daughters had to live in common accommodation and state pension. That is why people loved and respected this guy because of his tremendous achievements despite his horrendous mistakes (Not even mentioning his military genius and literary achievements or the number of women he bedded - Mao is a warlord, a calligrapher and a poet just like Cao Cao 曹操 1800 years ago but Mao achieved a hundred times more than Cao Cao. Cao Cao failed to unify China in his lifetime.). Probably a persona like Mao may appear once in a thousand years. I am not a Mao fan, but it is really difficult to understate his achievements. This is off topic but relevant later on.

One of Mao's mistakes was to jump directly to communism as described by Karl Marx without going to the steps he theorized society has to undergo these stages of social and economic development to achieve communism. Mao was really a true believer of communism, but he dont know how to achieve it.

1.) feudalism
2.) capitalism---|
3.) socialism-----| China now is somewhere in these two stages
4.) communism

Because by default, the capitalists will always exploit the workers for maximum profit. Take for example Amazon.
Jeff Bezos is worth over $100B while many of Amazon workers have little rest, there were even rumors that people in amazon has to wear a diaper to minimize bathroom breaks. People worked just to get enough for food and basic necessities. And this is not only limited to amazon but in all capitalist environments. Be it working in a convenience store, Walmart, factory or babershop. That is why we always complain the month last longer than the end our money. This is a classic Marx example where people are exploited to the maximum to make a tiny number of people ridiculously rich. Karl Marx was right from the beginning. Marx even theorized that because of this cutthroat competition and winner takes all nature of a capitalist system, industries will be left with very few gigantic monopolies. That is why we are seeing all of these

1.) google
2.) facebook
3.) in case for China in this post, there is Alipay and wechat Pay duopoly that controls so much of the digital payments system in China.
4.) etc

The Chinese leaders after Mao realized Mao's mistake. There is no shortcut to communism; one cannot achieve socialism without money; so instead they revived the merchant class but with a twist; private enterprises are back but all strategic industries are state owned. So that is why we have those gigantic Chinese state owned enterprises because it was consolidated and all small enterprises were let go. These strategic industries are the biggest money makers and it just make sense the money will go back to the state. Back in late 1970's there is no way for the authorities to know what future industries that might be dominated by private enterprises. So this is the historical background of those Chinese SOEs. They are needed to achieve socialism and to minimize the adverse impact of capitalism that will naturally come along with private enterprises. The widening gap between the rich and poor will continue down to our grandchildren's children unless the finite resources of earth will be socialized.


Case point. This is the money amount of mobile payments from 2013 to 2019 in China. If we sum that up that is 1,125T yuan (trillion yuan). The settlement fee for Alipay and wechat pay is around 0.6%. So in 6 years , these behemoths earned 6.75T - almost a USD 1T. How many countries can have this economic output in 6 years? Imagine if this trend to continue in the next 10, 30 or 50 years. It doesnt take a genius that this cannot be compounded indefinitely.

So it just make sense to nationalize these payment systems. These money are coming from the people. They just happen to be middle man. And just like all middle men, they suck blood and just like in the Confucian society they are the bottom of the society.

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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Case point. This is the money amount of mobile payments from 2013 to 2019 in China. If we sum that up that is 1,125T yuan (trillion yuan). The settlement fee for Alipay and wechat pay is around 0.6%. So in 6 years , these behemoths earned 6.75T - almost a USD 1T. How many countries can have this economic output in 6 years? Imagine if this trend to continue in the next 10, 30 or 50 years. It doesnt take a genius that this cannot be compounded indefinitely.
I agree with this point. The amount of money they are getting is obscene. Can you imagine if all this money had went for Semiconductors?!!

They are leeching off the Chinese economy. Time to do something about it. The gov must take the money and use it for something more productive
 

Mcsweeney

Junior Member
Any news about when the Chengdu-Lhasa railway will begin operation?

Hoping it makes more non-Tibetans move in to develop the area. It's currently way too sparsely populated to be defended against foreign interference and invasion

Turn it into a chinese switzerland, let people own some cheap vacation homes there

Tibet is not an ideal place to live for non-Tibetans because the low oxygen levels due to the high altitude leads to sickness. Giving birth there can even lead to birth defects. Tibetans are the only ones who have evolved the appropriate adaptations to live there.

Before Hu Jintao became president, he was a government official in Tibet and he had to leave because he was so sick all the time.
 
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