Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[vincent]

What you are saying is what the western media presented by deliberately twisting the words. Yet, you are angry at Gao Fu? That is like, a bully accused your child of starting the fight and you blame your own child of not being able to prevent that fight from happening. That is more like blaming the victim.

There is a reason why bureaucrats in the West don't speak to the public without their political masters' approval. The West is master at propaganda and China should learn from them.

Civil servants should be good at their jobs and should be chosen/promoted based on their skills for their roles, not their PR skills. PR should be done by people who are good at PR and they should be the one communicating to the public, not the technical bureaucrats.

If Gao Fu has ideas, he must communicated to his boss and fellow bureaucrats, but he should NOT say things to the public without approval by the PR department because the public may misunderstood his statements and because he is obviously not a good communicator.

 

[KYli]

No amount of PR work can change that. China can't, neither can the west or anybody. So I say, don't bother too much if these people buy into the propaganda or not because these people want to believe, they are not reasonable.

If you live in a multi-religious, multi-ethnic community, you will know that people tend to defend their kind regardless the truth. People of kinship would defend their kin even if he/she is the guilty one. "打冤家" was a common phenomenon in some part of southern China, while Muslims were known in China to be more common in fighting other group of people for their own without respect to law and legal procedures. We also know that during the recent Balkan wars neighbors turning against one another based on ethnic lines.

These things are there for thousands of years that is why I said "no amount of PR can change that".

No, I disagree. A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth. China needs to actively fight misinformation and employ better propaganda machinery to fight rumors.

 

[voyager1]

I am not talking about the misinformation for the Pfizer vaccine but the misinformation from the Western media that the Pfizer vaccine is way superior than the Chinese vaccines. By approving Pfizer, some Chinese would view that the Chinese government doesn't have confidence in its own vaccines.

Very good point. I will add though that the efficacy rate of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is better than the Chinese vaccines (due to utilising better and modern technology).

I will note though, that efficacy is not the only statistic by which a vaccine is rated as better or worse than another vaccine.

For example, nuclear power plants, it is lucky that the Chinese leader has the foresight to invest in its own nuclear technology Hualong rather than listening to those scientists and experts to go all in for the Westinghouse AP1000

Agreed. The AP1000 should have been only used for getting experience and technology. After that China should have abandoned it and went 100% for domestic technology and IP.

Ideally these kind of decisions should be taken like these:

For example you would rate the AP1000 best for pure profit reasons, and for the least risk (already developed).

Then you would include criteria such as domestic production(IP, tech etc), national security etc.

And then the different ministries and agencies would conclude what is more important and choose how high each critiria should be categorized.


E.g you could say that National Security is A+, Domestic IP A, Commercial B- etc.

Thats how contracts and decisions should be taken.

 

[taxiya]

but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth.

That sounds like somebody infamous. I can't agree with that and won't be played into fighting that.

 

[taxiya]

There is a reason why bureaucrats in the West don't speak to the public without their political masters' approval. The West is master at propaganda and China should learn from them.

Civil servants should be good at their jobs and should be chosen/promoted based on their skills for their roles, not their PR skills. PR should be done by people who are good at PR and they should be the one communicating to the public, not the technical bureaucrats.

If Gao Fu has ideas, he must communicated to his boss and fellow bureaucrats, but he should NOT say things to the public without approval by the PR department because the public may misunderstood his statements and because he is obviously not a good communicator.

You are describing how the western system is built and functioned. However, I fundamentally object that system. I support a system rooted from Chinese practice of technocracy dominating the system. The system may have a disadvantage in case of a PR fight, but that disadvantage is the cost of technocracy that one has to pay. There is no perfect system, for what I want I am willing to pay.

Your suggested remedy is to play the western rule of their game. Although China can do something about PR. But fundamentally China should not be led by the west into becoming the west.

Remember, China is not going to emulate the west and grow into another USA. China is to build the world in its own image, or at least remain what China has been in the past thousands of years, no matter how hard that may be.

Also remember, essentially all Chinese officials are technocrats except the foreign ministry. Xi Jingping and Li Keqiang are technocrats first and most too. They would not be able to compete with people like Obama or Trump who are good at using words to get attention. Instead they spend their time in perfecting their skills on real matters which is exactly why I support them. I would not want the Chinese leaders in any level to be like the western elected politicians who is good in talk but bad in everything else.

And last, I don't really give a dam of PR, nor do I care what the people feel about what those PR told them. If they are foolish enough to still believe in those propaganda after I have repeated facts for a 2nd time, they are as guilty as the lairs and deserve to go to hell together.

 

[voyager1]

No, I disagree. A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth. China needs to actively fight misinformation and employ better propaganda machinery to fight rumors.

Agreed. People think that if China doesn't play the propaganda game that people would naturaly start to trust it more LoL.

Fire is fought by Fire. If you cede the ground on Propaganda then expect that in 5-10 years time the whole world will be brainwashed to throw their lives against the "Nazi China"

I think people in China severely underestimate the strength of Propaganda. Unfortunately the Chinese Media (due to the political system) are braindead on PR

 

[vincent]

Also remember, essentially all Chinese officials are technocrats except the foreign ministry. Xi Jingping and Li Keqiang are technocrats first and most too. They would not be able to compete with people like Obama or Trump who are good at using words to get attention. Instead they spend their time in perfecting their skills on real matters which is exactly why I support them. I would not want the Chinese leaders in any level to be like the western elected politicians who is good in talk but bad in everything else.

Dude, all I'm saying is that communications with the public should be handled by dedicated PR departments and let technical bureaucrats focus on their jobs. All big companies have PR departments as well and regular employees are not allow to speak to the public on the companies' behalf without permission.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Now here is a real world study of Sinovac vaccine effectiveness
Araos said it had reduced hospitalizations by 85%, intensive care visits by 89% and deaths by 80%.

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Big Chile study finds Chinese vaccine slashes COVID deaths​

SANTIAGO, Chile (AP) — A real-world study of millions of Chileans who had received the Chinese-developed CoronaVac vaccine has found it 67% effective against symptoms and 80% against death from COVID-19, the South American country's Health Ministry said Friday.

Ministry adviser Rafael Araos said the study covered 10.5 million people, including 2.5 million who had received both doses of the vaccine and 1.5 million who had received a single dose between Feb. 2 and April 1.

It counted cases starting 14 days after application of the second dose of the vaccine, which in Chile was given 28 days after the first.

The vaccine has been widely used across the world, though not in the United States or Europe.

Araos said it had reduced hospitalizations by 85%, intensive care visits by 89% and deaths by 80%.

It is one of the broadest studies so far published of any of the vaccines used against the new coronavirus. Most previous studies were based on clinical studies of limited groups of thousands of people given the vaccines to test efficacy and safety

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

Shock: on March 18, 2020, mask wearing was banned in the upper house of India's parliament (the Rajya Sabha). One part of the video shows Chairman Muppavarapu Venkaiah Naidu requesting anyone wearing facemasks to remove them.

Insanity bbbbutt it's China's Fault!! Jai Hind!!

 

[voyager1]

Insanity bbbbutt it's China's Fault!! Jai Hind!!

Yes but but but what about China hiding their numbers ??!