Should term limit for China's presidency remain the same, be extended, or eliminated?

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
If US does blanket chip ban it will be solved this year
Or at least penghu island. Much easier to land on penghu and it's not too far away from middle of Taiwan strait.


Take penghu, and wait for future. Penghu under control , Taiwan situation is half solved.

The penghu civilians can be hostage against potential counterstrike from Taiwan, US and Japan.
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
while Xi is fighting graft, there are several article on his family wealth, as well as wealth from his predecessor. alot these wealth are oversea or in HK etc. when you have absolute power, there is not much anyone can do to you. Xi's kids also went to harvard, pretty sure chinese official salary is not gonna cover it.

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D

Deleted member 15887

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Hu Chunhua not only belongs in the Hu-Wen Tuanpai Youth League faction (not exactly a Xi loyalist anyway), recent news uncovered massive corruption in Inner Mongolia during his time as Party Secretary of the Autonomous Region. Not only does he face massive headwinds to ascend to one of the top jobs, there might even be a case where investigations into these corruptions leads to his purging from leadership... and perhaps even the party.


The handling of the pandemic as well as Xi's portfolio of accomplishments both on the domestic and foreign front have proven that he's here to stay. I legit see the possibility of Xi bringing back and occupying the position of Chairman of the CCP, a post Mao occupied and was abolished in 1982. It'd allow Xi to hold onto the party leadership (either as Chairman of the party and designating a successor to occupy the position of General Secretary, or just keeping the status quo as General Secretary), Presidency of the country (state), and leadership of the CMC (military) as he guides the country through a crucial period whilst allowing leaders from the 6th generation that he's groomed to occupy key positions in the Politburo... Sorta like Deng did when he held onto the First Ranked Vice Premier position and led the country as Paramount Leader while his proteges Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang ran things on the ground as General Secretary and Premier.

Term limits were only removed for the Presidency and not the Premiership, so Li Keqiang (who belongs to the Hu-Wen faction) will almost certainly have to step down... or perhaps he's garnered enough favor from Xi to move to a lower ranked position (I think unlikely though). Based on my amateur research, I'd say these two candidates face the best chance at ascending to the Premiership next year:
  • Wang Yang
    • Current Standing Committee Member and Chairman of the CPPCC
    • Previously Vice Premier, so he'd have extensive experience and insight on how the State Council works... on top of that he previously governed Guangdong and Chongqing as Party Secretary, which are the CCP's spotlight jobs
    • Belongs in the Hu-Wen faction, but seemingly has a good working relationship with Xi
    • Factions aside, I think he's the most qualified for the job.
  • Liu He
    • Currently 4th ranked Vice Premier and already on the Politburo (although not a Standing Committee Member)
    • He is largely responsible for Xi's economic policy (in other words a massive ally and a guy Xi trusts), and was charged with leading trade talks with the US... so big ticks on the financial, economical, and foreign affairs front.
    • He'll be 70 next year, so he'll need waving of the party's informal retirement rules (七上八下 - in essence you get to stay if you're 67 when the Party Congress first comes into session, however you must retire if you're 68)
    • All hinges on whether Xi can sell it to the party members and elders to see past the informal rule... and I'm just not 100% sure if they'd allow it... however the potential rewards and leadership+insight Liu could provide if given the exception could be massive for China's future.
These names from the current Politburo get thrown around a lot in the press largely because they belong to Xi's faction and they also happen to occupy the party's 'spotlight' grooming positions:
  • Li Xi, Guangdong Party Secretary
  • Chin Min'er, Chongqing Party Secretary
  • Li Qiang, Shanghai Party Secretary
  • My thoughts:
    • Normal promotion pathway to Premier sees a candidate spend time as one of four Vice Premiers to prove he has the goods before promoting to Premier in the upcoming Party Congress... While these guys have loads of experience and accomplishments governing provinces, they lack experience in the State Council.... and well the Premier is in charge of the State Council.
    • I don't think they get promoted to General Secretary or Premier, but I still think they are highly likely to ascend to the Standing Committee and occupy the following positions:
      • Chairman of the either the NPC or the CPPCC (3rd and 4th ranked position in the country respectively) as a way to lead Xi's agenda through legislation
      • Secretary of the Central Commission of Discipline Inspection (CCDI) as a way to reinforce Xi's influence in the party
      • One of four Vice Premier positions
    • While it would seem the party is skipping this generation (6th generation), I do think they have a crucial role to play in China's future. Basically my long way of saying why I don't think these guys will become General Secretary or Premier next year.
I think Wang Huining, current Central Secretariat (basically Xi's highly effective chief of staff, the West thinks he's China's Kissenger) keeps his job... He's a great mind and highly efficient at his job, but its not like he has provincial governing experience or time spent at the State Council to be promoted to say Chairman of the NPC/CPPCC or Premier. Zhao Leji, a Xi ally and current CCDI Secretary, could either keep his job or promote to Chairman of the NPC or CPPCC.

These guys will hold down the fort for the 20th (and maybe the 21st Party Congress as well I think) while leaders from the 7th generation are groomed in key positions in the coming Party Congress.... and depending on the state of global affairs and where the country is at, they'll "rise to power" in the 21st (2027) or 22nd (2032) Party Congress. In other words if I had to make a bet, I think we should have a better idea of China's next paramount leader in 2027 when a new Central Secretariat is named and ascends to General Secretary + Paramount Leader in the 22nd Party Congress.
I am cautious about a Chairman position... at some point, he has to step down. Aging, senile leaders are not exactly great (though I don't think Xi is there yet). Xi will be 69 in 2022, so 5 more years should be okay. But if his rule extends far into his late 70s/early 80s, that will be troubling.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
I am cautious about a Chairman position... at some point, he has to step down. Aging, senile leaders are not exactly great (though I don't think Xi is there yet). Xi will be 69 in 2022, so 5 more years should be okay. But if his rule extends far into his late 70s/early 80s, that will be troubling.
I think there are 2 sides on the Chairman position thing.

At one side as you said he will be too old and too powerful.

At the other side, while he would be more powerful he would have more time to cultivate more talent without being afraid of his political career ending. Truth being said is that currently, the senior leaders are now living in his shadow and there is no or very little chance of "shining".

Ideally the best idea would be to get the Chairman position, leave the Presidenship to allow for one of his colleagues to get promoted and to reduce discontent for stopping the political carreers of senior leaders. So he would take a step back, leave more responsibilities to the other people, while he would be more focused on the big picture.

This way, when he eventually reaches the 2032 period, the people under him had time to develop their own power, get more experience, while completing Xi's vision. So when he steps down, there would be experienced leaders "holding the fort" and because he was more of big-picture guy and wasn't too involved on internal matters he wouldnt be able to deal too much damage if he went senile etc. On foreign policy the same, as it not been happening with just one's person command.


Anyway, this is IMO the ideal path forward. I am not experienced on Chinese politics and history so take that with a grain of salt on how realistic it is.
 
D

Deleted member 15887

Guest
I think there are 2 sides on the Chairman position thing.

At one side as you said he will be too old and too powerful.

At the other side, while he would be more powerful he would have more time to cultivate more talent without being afraid of his political career ending. Truth being said is that currently, the senior leaders are now living in his shadow and there is no or very little chance of "shining".

Ideally the best idea would be to get the Chairman position, leave the Presidenship to allow for one of his colleagues to get promoted and to reduce discontent for stopping the political carreers of senior leaders. So he would take a step back, leave more responsibilities to the other people, while he would be more focused on the big picture.

This way, when he eventually reaches the 2032 period, the people under him had time to develop their own power, get more experience, while completing Xi's vision. So when he steps down, there would be experienced leaders "holding the fort" and because he was more of big-picture guy and wasn't too involved on internal matters he wouldnt be able to deal too much damage if he went senile etc. On foreign policy the same, as it not been happening with just one's person command.


Anyway, this is IMO the ideal path forward. I am not experienced on Chinese politics and history so take that with a grain of salt on how realistic it is.
But if he refuses to step down even at 80+, then there will be trouble...
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
But if he refuses to step down even at 80+, then there will be trouble...
We will see. He will for sure keep his CMC position so that he can make sure that his vision for China will be followed.

Didn't Deng Xiaoping do the same thing when he stepped down but he kept the CMC leadership position (not 100% sure on that) so that he could ensure that the following leaders followed his policies?

Anyway, it is too early for us to speculate so far in the future. There are too many variable to say what will and wont happen
 

crash8pilot

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just saved this amazing post for future reference, thanks for the effort.

I also agree that there is a high possibility that Xi will bring back the position of Chairman

If Xi, brings back the position what role will he play? Can you have a different Chairman, President and Premier?
The thing is term limits or not, Party Elders (老同志) have a lot of say in country and party affairs even though they've retired out of the Central Committee. Case and point Deng picked Hu Jintao as Jiang's successor back in the day, and Hu-Wen managed to retain two picks on the current Standing Committee (Li Keqiang, who's ranked number 2 in the party, and Wang Yang, who's ranked number 4... in other words high level positions). Even if term limits weren't waived, there would be a 110% chance Xi still keeps his influence in party affairs much like Jiang did - the difference here is that Xi is so much more influential and contributed so much more to the country than Jiang ever did. Becoming Chairman of the CCP would give Xi more "legitimacy" and "clout" than being a Party Elder, whilst more importantly also keeping him in the forefront of party affairs instead of leading things from behind the scenes like Jiang did during the Hu-Wen Administration. It is also a two way relationship whereby the party and country benefits from the stability of being led by a proven steady hand, whilst mitigating drama and dirty laundry that tends to get aired out when administrations get turned over.

The whole reason the position of Chairman of the CCP was abolished was to prevent a single leader from rising above the party. Given the circumstances the country is dealt with as it rises as a global superpower and a historic position to rewrite the global order as we know it, I truly believe there is precedent and support from not only the party, but more importantly the masses to provide Xi the one-off opportunity to become Chairman. I'd imagine as Chairman of the CCP, Xi would still have a General Secretary as some sort of a right hand man to run the day-to-day operations of the party, as well as a separate Premier to run the overall bureaucracy of the State Council and Government. In essence the party benefits not from Xi's management skills, but rather his leadership and foresight whilst his General Secretary and Premier execute his plan.... I mean after all Xi spent a whole decade placing people he trusts throughout the Central Committee and especially in key positions, he doesn't need to be that hands on as a leader. Leaders from the 7th generation will occupy crucial positions such as Party Secretary of key provinces and regions, ministerial positions in the State Council, Director of the General Office, as well as Head of the Party Organization Department as a form of grooming towards higher positions in the standing committee later on.... I mean ultimately that's how a meritocracy is supposed to work - you put high performers from the party in positions to gain valuable experience, and then see if they have the goods to make it to one of the top jobs.

I could also see Xi retaining the position of General Secretary and title of President next year, then "taking a step back" in the 21st Party Congress by ascending to Chairman while concurrently maintaining the title of the Presidency and allowing the people he's groomed from the 6th generation of leaders to take on a more hands on role. Depending on where the country/party is at and whether it still requires a personality such as Xi in the 21st Party Congress (Xi would be 74, that's how old Trump would be now if he won instead of Biden) and the 22nd (Xi would be 79, almost the same age Biden is now), Xi steps down as Chairman and the party abolishes the positions unless future circumstances call for it to be brought back... Wang Huining might keep his position as Central Secretariat in the 20th Party Congress, and he'll be succeeded in the 21st Party Congress by someone groomed from the 7th generation leadership who follows the current status quo by ascending to the position of General Secretary as Xi's successor in the subsequent Party Congress. The same logic applies where someone the party thinks is Premiership material from the 7th generation leadership becomes First Ranked Vice Premier, and he/she ultimately promotes to Premier.

In summary I think Xi occupies the following positions and titles next year:
  • Chairman or General Secretary of the CCP
    • Gives him control of the party
  • President of China
    • Gives him control of the state
  • Chairman of the CMC
    • Gives him control of the military
How will they differentiate their roles? Who will the foreign leaders meet (unlikely to be the Premier), what responsibilities will the president have and what will the chairman?
So Chairman/General Secretary leads the party and the Premier runs the Central Government... But the President is the de facto head of the Central Government, so the Premier answers to him. That's why if Xi becomes Chairman, the General Secretary would seemingly be level with the Premier (party rankings typically still sees General Secretary being the more senior position over Premier).

Foreign leaders will meet Director of the Central Foreign Affairs Commission, which is also a Politburo position. The position is currently occupied by Yang Jiechi, who will be age restricted (he'll be 72) next year. I'd love to see current Foreign Minister and State Councillor Wang Yi promoted to that position for all the work he's done for China on the Foreign Affairs front over the years... I think it wouldn't be far fetched at all to include the Director of the Foreign Affairs Commission into the Standing Committee, as the country rises as a superpower and foreign affairs takes up an increasingly important role alongside domestic policy, especially with BRI taking shape. The promotion is much deserved, except Wang Yi just so happens to also be age restricted by a few days lol.... Wang turns 68 at the beginning of October and the new Party Congress comes into session mid to late October.

The position of Premier is regarded as a head of state position, so foreign heads of states will still meet the Premier on foreign visits. Case and point Li Keqiang virtually met with Western business leaders just this week, and he's also made foreign visits meeting heads of states throughout his Premiership... all be it doesn't get as much coverage as Xi's foreign visits. I do think someone like Liu He, who has experience negotiating with foreign leaders (I'd say he's done well with trade talks with the US given the growing post-talk trade deficits lol), as well as Wang Yang (who also has extensive experience dealing with foreign dignitaries during his time as Vice Premier and comes across incredibly savvy and well spoken) could do really well as Premier when it comes to foreign affairs. Like I said both have extensive experience as well as accomplishments on the economic and commerce front, with Wang Yang being a bit more "liberal" and "free market thinking" than the typical Xi ally. While I'd ideally prefer the party grant Liu an exception to the age rule so that he can ascend to the Premiership next year, the party could absolutely benefit from Wang's differing views (but proven views, given what he's done during his tenure as Party Secretary of Guangdong where he transformed Shenzhen from a manufacturing powerhouse into an innovation hub) as a way of preventing the Politburo from becoming a complete echo chamber. It also helps that while Wang might offer differing views, he's still highly loyal to the party as well as the cause of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, and he won't (or historically hasn't anyway) directly challenge Xi's leadership.
 

SimaQian

Junior Member
Registered Member
while Xi is fighting graft, there are several article on his family wealth, as well as wealth from his predecessor. alot these wealth are oversea or in HK etc. when you have absolute power, there is not much anyone can do to you. Xi's kids also went to harvard, pretty sure chinese official salary is not gonna cover it.

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These are plain trash.

This is what CIA described Xi Jinping as a person.

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