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voyager1

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ougoah said:
Israel seems to be very China neutral politically and it has helped China immensely in the past. But it's also gotta many things in return such as China staying out of middle eastern politics, China staying out of American action in the middle east, and not arming Israel's enemies with any offensive weapons, not even a single bolt of something more sophisticated than a rifle and bullet.

China paid handsomely for any tech boost that could be quickly supplied. It was up to China to learn and understand and reverse engineer. This includes early missile tech back when China simply had no solid tech foundation to stand on. Sino Soviet split was another big boost where western nations wooed China with weapons deals. China paid fairly for everything... in fact the only thing China didn't pay for were the flanker IP. Well it didn't pay Sukhoi directly. It can be considered that it didn't even pay Russia the fair amount despite only being able to provide political backing. Then again no country has ever considered IP respect worthy when they were poor and down. Only when they're the ones who have net benefit, does the shouting begin. I don't recall any of them performing due diligence in their time. Too many examples to list.

You can provide tech and support to some nations and even hold their hand but it could still not happen or take twice as long and twice as much resources spent. I don't think Israel can take all the credit. They had tech developed by themselves and others and sold them to China. And even here it's a tiny portion of the MIC. If not Israel for the first missile tech, the western ones from Italy and France were good enough classes.
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Well they certainly dont deserve all the credit, but they helped China a lot. I am sure that you know that there some things that you cant just buy with money, this is where Israel came in and helped China (paid of course).

Anyway, my point is that Israel is a very important country in the region and that China should at least keep its friendly relations with it.

Hopefully the China-Iran deal might prompt Israel to start solving some of their longstanding issues. The JCPA deal with Iran is a good first step(from world powers) and the Israel-Palestine issue is also necessary.(from Israel's side)

The Chinese FM has invited Israel and Palestine to start again their talks and finally produce some results.
I think Israel is realising that on this geopolitical situation they need to start solving their immediate problems so that they can be stronger.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Crang said:
What is this 'civilization' you speak of
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He is probably referring to the past Great Powers of their time.

I dont necessary disagree with his assertion that "they only respect POWER AND HARD POWER". I mean if you have only wealth and not security/defence, it is like leaving a bank unguarded and begging for thieves to plunder it. Prime example the Qing dynasty


I would say however that this is not not only a "Western" trait but a universal human/jungle rule. If you are strong, you set the rules. If you are weak, then only suffering awaits you
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
People put their pockets in front of national unity, patriotism, sense of duty etc etc big surprise!

Jack Ma was kneecapped by the CCP. He's not too happy about it. Who'd have thought?! Question is was it right for the government to appropriate his position and tell him to enjoy retirement as a billionaire the CCP will take over from here lol.

In the West, capital controls all the levers to policy and power. In PRC, policy and state power controls capital - partly why the old Chinese billionaires and those in HK and Taiwan have so much hatred for it. Drawbacks and benefits in both, personal experiences and biases can decide opinions.
 
V

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
ougoah said:
People put their pockets in front of national unity, patriotism, sense of duty etc etc big surprise!

Jack Ma was kneecapped by the CCP. He's not too happy about it. Who'd have thought?! Question is was it right for the government to appropriate his position and tell him to enjoy retirement as a billionaire the CCP will take over from here lol.

In the West, capital controls all the levers to policy and power. In PRC, policy and state power controls capital - partly why the old Chinese billionaires and those in HK and Taiwan have so much hatred for it. Drawbacks and benefits in both, personal experiences and biases can decide opinions.
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Nothing bad with billionaires. He could quietly quit (he did) and then take his money and create new innovative businesses (he didn't).

In contrast with that Pinduoduo CEO, who quietly stepped down, donated 100m to his university (good) and said that he is gonna enter the food science sector (very very good)

You see? The above guy is a model billionaire, Jack MA on the other hand can go pound sand
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
voyager1 said:
Nothing bad with billionaires. He could quietly quit (he did) and then take his money and create new innovative businesses (he didn't).

In contrast with that Pinduoduo CEO, who quietly stepped down, donated 100m to his university (good) and said that he is gonna enter the food science sector (very very good)

You see? The above guy is a model billionaire, Jack MA on the other hand can go pound sand
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Anyone listening to Jack Ma can tell he's actually not all there and not all that bright overall. He is driven and he's passionate. That's about it to be honest. He did have a few okayish ideas and executed them well. Took advantage of government support and infrastructure and the market of the times. Mediocre people often have great ideas. Executing is 99% of the problem. I've met some Chinese entrepreneurs who are dumb as drywall and less well informed. Doesn't stop them from trying to make it. That might be a good thing but genuinely switched on people aren't doing things purely for money ESPECIALLY when they've already achieved a certain level of living standard and income flow or good enough residual income.

China needs more of those Elon Musk attitudes in its billionaires, understanding that a bank balance beyond a few million is absolutely pointless and that money is a means to bring about positive change for their community and beyond. I'm surprised there are any Chinese billionaires who are NOT happy donating away their vast fortunes for common good/government (seeing as they're doing the best governing job in human history overall) and using the billions they're left with (or maybe less than that) on other interesting and worthwhile ventures. How greedy can people get? The wrong mindsets sometimes do get to those levels and I bet they desperately wish they were American lol. Tough... they seem to forget the CCP and Chinese common people made all that shit possible for them in the first place. Even in a socialist society, the vast majority take issue with it when they stand to lose out. Human nature, quickly forgetting the big picture and how good they have it already. Unwilling to spare an opportunity to lift up those who are left behind. I'm not even talking about donations or redistributing income like old commie days but simply not pointlessly hording money and buying your 100th Euro handbag/supercar/jewellery etc.

Looking forward to the day that greed isn't the clear prime motivator in China's progress. Deng realised really early on that Mao and his mates were a bit too idealistic and that Chinese people should be given the carrot and not the stick to really move forwards. Poverty is not socialism, to be rich is glorious. Now it's time for the next evolutionary step, doing things because they matter rather than because there's a good paycheck at the end of the task. But maybe that's just a socialist delusion. I still think there are more positive elements in the Japanese and even American mindset in this regard e.g. Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and so on.
 
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voyager1

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Secretary of State Antony Blinken criticized China’s handling of the Covid-19 pandemic in an interview on “Meet the Press” Sunday, arguing that the country’s “failure” to cooperate in the early stages of the virus led to the situation getting “out of hand.”

“I think China knows that in the early stages of Covid, it didn't do what it needed to do, which was to, in real time, give access to international experts, in real time to share information, in real time to provide real transparency,” he said.

“One result of that failure,” he added, is that the virus "got out of hand faster and with, I think, much more egregious results than it might otherwise.”
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Someone give Blinken his meds. After more than a year, the US is still obsessed with China.

I think they should pay more attention to their economy and leave China alone
 
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