09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

The Observer

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Another
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about Type 093 and 094. It's in traditional mandarin but GT translation result is plenty readable.

The main website is
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. It's an old website with a weird layout (you click at icon with link embedded in it), but it's still being updated and the info is generally of high to very high quality. Definitely recommended to check it out.
 
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SpicySichuan

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Isn't 093b has more powerful sonar that can detect opponents's subs?

It does seems to carry more sonars . The additional side sonar and the towed array from the small hump
The 093 class in general is already an outdated design from the 1990s. The technology involved were only comparable to U.S. and Soviet SSNs of the late 1970s (think early Los Angeles Class or early Akula class, but still noisier). As much as the PLAN's SSN/SSBN fleet is a force to be reckoned with, it is still far behind the USN and Russia in both quality and quantity. You have to wait until the mass production of 095/096 (especially if these subs install the rim-driven pump jets developed by Adm. Ma) in order for the PLAN to catch up with Russia and the USN in nuclear submarines capabilities. This will probably not happen until the mid. 2030s (assuming PLAN's budget enjoys steady increase). Finally, China SSN/SSBNs can only be assembled in one shipyard: the Huludao Bohai Shipyard. Comparably, both Russia and U.S. have multiple shipyards capable of assembling nuclear-powered subs.

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Yet, the 039B/C conventional subs most likely carry China's most updated sensors, sonars, and computer systems for now. They are also earlier to mass produce in Wuhan, Shanghai, and other shipyard throughout China. Maybe 039s are small enough that they could even be assembled in the Chuandong Shipyard in Chongqing should the CMC decide to. The Chuanqong Shipyand was built during the Third Front Movement to assemble the 033 Romeo class subs. In general, the 039s are faster and cheaper to produce, while still carrying China's most advanced underwater armament (except nukes) for now.
 

gelgoog

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...
Comparably, both Russia and U.S. have multiple shipyards capable of assembling nuclear-powered subs.
...

What? All the Russian nuclear submarines are built at Sevmash. Ever since Yeltsin's time all their production has been concentrated at the same shipyard. A huge shipyard, for sure, but a single one.
 

SpicySichuan

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What? All the Russian nuclear submarines are built at Sevmash. Ever since Yeltsin's time all their production has been concentrated at the same shipyard. A huge shipyard, for sure, but a single one.
Oops I meant the USSR... cuz I remember when I studied in St. Petersburg (aka Leningrad), a local professor told me that Admiralty Shipyard USED to assemble nuclear subs during Soviet times.
 

Tam

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Via mr. unknown at the CDF. Quotes from an interesting paper. It applies to PLAN submarines in general so its not only 093s and such.



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Vol 4, Iss 1 Winter 2020/2021
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The U.S. Navy’s Loss of Command of the Seas to China and How to Regain It
Joe Sestak


Some quotes:

"And China’s constant upgrades in the quieting of diesel and nuclear attack submarines have meant that early warning detection could no longer be done by long-range, passive sonar. It would have to be done by close-in, active sonar instead. The physics of active sonar mean that, in most cases, submarines can only be detected using active sonar after they are already within their weapon-firing range. These threats keep most U.S. forces at a great distance until enough warships (and airlift) have arrived to provide a defensive sanctuary to allow U.S. forces to move forward."

This is why I mentioned in another thread that the gold standard in submarine detection is now through active sonar, like in using VDS, instead of passive towed arrays.

"For instance, submarines at the time were returning from deployments with sonar tapes that revealed (through post-deployment analyses by high-capacity computers) that there had been quiet, modern Chinese submarines close by that had gone undetected. "

So Chinese subs might be more quieter than suggested.

Overall, paper has some interesting bits and pieces, but it all sounds like Star Trek to me. Star Trek tries to make its science sounds legitimate by throwing word babble such as 'photon' and 'quantum', and it is a similar case here with 'quantum computing', 'AI', '5G' and 'cyberwarfare' without making a tangible connection of such to naval warfare.
 

ougoah

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I feel these are examples of the intentional fear mongering, budget expanding, military misinformation effort from certain parts of the US MIC and military itself. Get more money, create a fear and China danger mentally with the public, feed Chinese side some misinformation about Chinese "strength" and American "weakness".
 

z117

New Member
feed Chinese side some misinformation about Chinese "strength" and American "weakness".
I'm not a war nerd. But do you think Chinese strategist will read this and say; gee Americans think our boats are more impressive than we do. We can stop development now and take a long weekend!
 
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