News on China's scientific and technological development.

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member

China had 'Clubhouse' tech years ago -- so why didn't it take off?​

Dizhua, a voice-based chatroom app that was launched in China in early 2019, is viewed as the most similar to Clubhouse. However, the app has been downloaded only 140,000 times to date on Apple's China App Store, compared with Clubhouse's 3.9 million installs by the first week of February, according to data analytics firm SensorTower.

"It's not about Clubhouse's technology being better than other apps. Everybody is using the same [software development kit] for audio," said Kenichiro Hara, a Tokyo-based consumer sector investor at venture capital firm DCM.

"Social apps are all about the network effect. If you come into the app and you don't see any friends, meaning you don't see any contents, then it's not a good app," said Hara. Clubhouse's ability to attract a global user base who can generate quality content to bring more new sign-ups differentiate it from other China-focused apps, he added.

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Comment: Chinese companies can't escape censorship, but they can develop more global products that appeal outside of just China. There should be more of an effort by companies like Tencent, Alibaba, QQ, etc. to expand overseas.
 

KYli

Brigadier
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China aims to go as big in bioplastics as it did in solar panels​

TOKYO -- Chinese material manufacturers plan to dramatically increase their output of biodegradable plastics made from plants in response to China's ban against disposal plastic bags.

A single company, China BBCA Group, aims to build up its capacity to produce the plastic to a level that far outstrips global demand.

The scale of these plans attests to the size of China's plastic waste problem. But it also raises concerns among competitors of a Chinese-driven supply glut the likes of which was seen in solar cells and and wind turbines.

"We want to show our answer to white pollution," said BBCA President Li Rongjie, using the term coined for waste plastics.

A supplier of lactic acids used in food additives, BBCA in August started up a plant capable of producing 50,000 tons of polylactic acid (PLA) polymers a year, later breaking ground on another plant in December. The group plans to reach the capacity to produce 700,000 tons of PLA annually by 2023.

That same year, the global PLA market will grow to 370,000 tons, according to the Fuji Chimera Research Institute in Tokyo, up from less than 200,000 tons in 2019.

PLA, a biodegradable compound derived from corn and other plants, has a wide range of uses including as nonwoven fabric masks, apparel and drinking straws. Nearly 10 other Chinese companies besides BBCA have plans to raise their PLA capacity, a July survey by China's Huaan Securities shows.

Similar activity can be seen in other biodegradable plastics. Huaan says about 15 companies plan to boost production of polybutylene adipate terephthalate, a petroleum-based compound also known as PBAT.

Major Chinese producers plan to increase annual output of PBAT and polybutylene succinate (PBS) by a combined 1.24 million tons, according to interviews conducted by BBCA's Tokyo-based partner HighChem. This is 4.8 times their capacity in June 2020.

This trend traces back to January of last year, when the National Development and Reform Commission, China's top economic planning body, announced a policy to limit the use of non-biodegradable plastic.

In China, 40% of used plastics end up in landfills or as litter. The country is estimated to account for a quarter of the worldwide plastic waste that pollutes oceans.

The Chinese public has complained strongly about the inadequate plastic waste management, to the point where both the state and the Communist Party were forced to respond. The draft five-year plan unveiled by the party in November, which lays out key economic and political goals through 2025, included a provision to "strengthen governance of white pollution."

The build-up of biodegradable plastic production also aligns with the goals of local governments. The city of Bengbu, where BBCA is headquartered, and the surrounding Anhui Province are providing financial subsidies and tax incentives to the company, and also assisting with PLA business meetings.

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HighChem, a materials trading company, sees a large potential for PBAT and recently signed a contract with a separate Chinese manufacturer to import and sell film for agricultural use.

If biodegradable plastic production continues to grow in China, "the cost of use in environmental products will drop," said HighChem President Ushio Taka.

China's current demand for non-biodegradable plastic for such uses as bags is estimated in the millions of tons. The government's policy change could spur a shift toward plastics that break down naturally, which would further expand the market. In that scenario, a supply glut would not immediately occur.

But when Beijing hands down such decrees, local governments typically dangle incentives to increase production, and companies answer the call in anticipation of subsidies and profits. This was the pattern seen previously with solar cells, wind-power equipment and LCD. The scaleup in production disregards profitability, resulting in excess supplies and global price slumps.

In Japan, the government and chemical makers are not as active in biodegradable plastics as Chinese peers, instead focusing on biomass plastics. These are made from non-biodegradable plant material that can be incinerated for energy. The goal is to produce 2 million tons of all bioplastics a year by 2030.

But Japanese suppliers' ability to meet this target remains limited. Mitsubishi Chemical has the capacity for only 20,000 tons of biodegradable plastics a year through its joint venture with Thai petroleum major PTT. Another supplier, Kaneka, has just 5,000 tons in annual capacity.

There are plans to raise capacity, but "the concern is that we would lose if we competed head-on with the Chinese in investing," said a Mitsubishi Chemical representative.

Despite the mounting scale among Chinese competitors, Germany's BASF sees China as a promising market where demand will grow. The company is teaming with a local maker to position itself for a larger market, granting Red Avenue New Materials the license to manufacture and sell PBAT. Red Avenue is building a new plant that will launch in 2022 at a yearly capacity of 60,000 tons.
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
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China aims to go as big in bioplastics as it did in solar panels​

TOKYO -- Chinese material manufacturers plan to dramatically increase their output of biodegradable plastics made from plants in response to China's ban against disposal plastic bags.

A single company, China BBCA Group, aims to build up its capacity to produce the plastic to a level that far outstrips global demand.

The scale of these plans attests to the size of China's plastic waste problem. But it also raises concerns among competitors of a Chinese-driven supply glut the likes of which was seen in solar cells and and wind turbines.

"We want to show our answer to white pollution," said BBCA President Li Rongjie, using the term coined for waste plastics.

A supplier of lactic acids used in food additives, BBCA in August started up a plant capable of producing 50,000 tons of polylactic acid (PLA) polymers a year, later breaking ground on another plant in December. The group plans to reach the capacity to produce 700,000 tons of PLA annually by 2023.

That same year, the global PLA market will grow to 370,000 tons, according to the Fuji Chimera Research Institute in Tokyo, up from less than 200,000 tons in 2019.

PLA, a biodegradable compound derived from corn and other plants, has a wide range of uses including as nonwoven fabric masks, apparel and drinking straws. Nearly 10 other Chinese companies besides BBCA have plans to raise their PLA capacity, a July survey by China's Huaan Securities shows.

Similar activity can be seen in other biodegradable plastics. Huaan says about 15 companies plan to boost production of polybutylene adipate terephthalate, a petroleum-based compound also known as PBAT.

Major Chinese producers plan to increase annual output of PBAT and polybutylene succinate (PBS) by a combined 1.24 million tons, according to interviews conducted by BBCA's Tokyo-based partner HighChem. This is 4.8 times their capacity in June 2020.

This trend traces back to January of last year, when the National Development and Reform Commission, China's top economic planning body, announced a policy to limit the use of non-biodegradable plastic.

In China, 40% of used plastics end up in landfills or as litter. The country is estimated to account for a quarter of the worldwide plastic waste that pollutes oceans.

The Chinese public has complained strongly about the inadequate plastic waste management, to the point where both the state and the Communist Party were forced to respond. The draft five-year plan unveiled by the party in November, which lays out key economic and political goals through 2025, included a provision to "strengthen governance of white pollution."

The build-up of biodegradable plastic production also aligns with the goals of local governments. The city of Bengbu, where BBCA is headquartered, and the surrounding Anhui Province are providing financial subsidies and tax incentives to the company, and also assisting with PLA business meetings.

https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%2Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%2Fimages%2F6%2F7%2F1%2F0%2F32400176-3-eng-GB%2FCropped-16131611502013-06-05T120000Z_23765402_GM1E9650KAO01_RTRMADP_3_CHINA.JPG




https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%2Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%2Fimages%2F_aliases%2Farticleimage%2F9%2F3%2F6%2F6%2F32396639-1-eng-GB%2Fphoto_SXM2021020200000648.jpg


HighChem, a materials trading company, sees a large potential for PBAT and recently signed a contract with a separate Chinese manufacturer to import and sell film for agricultural use.

If biodegradable plastic production continues to grow in China, "the cost of use in environmental products will drop," said HighChem President Ushio Taka.

China's current demand for non-biodegradable plastic for such uses as bags is estimated in the millions of tons. The government's policy change could spur a shift toward plastics that break down naturally, which would further expand the market. In that scenario, a supply glut would not immediately occur.

But when Beijing hands down such decrees, local governments typically dangle incentives to increase production, and companies answer the call in anticipation of subsidies and profits. This was the pattern seen previously with solar cells, wind-power equipment and LCD. The scaleup in production disregards profitability, resulting in excess supplies and global price slumps.

In Japan, the government and chemical makers are not as active in biodegradable plastics as Chinese peers, instead focusing on biomass plastics. These are made from non-biodegradable plant material that can be incinerated for energy. The goal is to produce 2 million tons of all bioplastics a year by 2030.

But Japanese suppliers' ability to meet this target remains limited. Mitsubishi Chemical has the capacity for only 20,000 tons of biodegradable plastics a year through its joint venture with Thai petroleum major PTT. Another supplier, Kaneka, has just 5,000 tons in annual capacity.

There are plans to raise capacity, but "the concern is that we would lose if we competed head-on with the Chinese in investing," said a Mitsubishi Chemical representative.

Despite the mounting scale among Chinese competitors, Germany's BASF sees China as a promising market where demand will grow. The company is teaming with a local maker to position itself for a larger market, granting Red Avenue New Materials the license to manufacture and sell PBAT. Red Avenue is building a new plant that will launch in 2022 at a yearly capacity of 60,000 tons.

I guess you don’t have to take Econ 101 to be a business journalist. Demand is price-dependent. When Chinese companies bring the price down by economy of scale there will be more demand.
 

Nobonita Barua

Senior Member
Registered Member

China had 'Clubhouse' tech years ago -- so why didn't it take off?​

Dizhua, a voice-based chatroom app that was launched in China in early 2019, is viewed as the most similar to Clubhouse. However, the app has been downloaded only 140,000 times to date on Apple's China App Store, compared with Clubhouse's 3.9 million installs by the first week of February, according to data analytics firm SensorTower.

"It's not about Clubhouse's technology being better than other apps. Everybody is using the same [software development kit] for audio," said Kenichiro Hara, a Tokyo-based consumer sector investor at venture capital firm DCM.

"Social apps are all about the network effect. If you come into the app and you don't see any friends, meaning you don't see any contents, then it's not a good app," said Hara. Clubhouse's ability to attract a global user base who can generate quality content to bring more new sign-ups differentiate it from other China-focused apps, he added.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Comment: Chinese companies can't escape censorship, but they can develop more global products that appeal outside of just China. There should be more of an effort by companies like Tencent, Alibaba, QQ, etc. to expand overseas.
So make it new version of p--nhub, people will come.

To attach the word "freedom" in everything wont do any good. Not everything is for marketing.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
So make it new version of p--nhub, people will come.

To attach the word "freedom" in everything wont do any good. Not everything is for marketing.

That has been the case of a lot of Chinese who circumvent censors via VPN. Sadly a lot of them actually started off somewhat liberal but after seeing all the BS beyond the wall they ended up turning into little pinks. Overseas developers of VPNs often complain that users either use them only for porn or verbally abuse their “handlers” just to get a rise out of them.

Back on topic.

Robots used in the Chinese New Year Gala. Surprisingly the mech isn’t just a guy in a suit but is actually remote controlled.

The four legged oxen are similar to Boston Dynamics bots playing dress up.

 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member

China had 'Clubhouse' tech years ago -- so why didn't it take off?​

Dizhua, a voice-based chatroom app that was launched in China in early 2019, is viewed as the most similar to Clubhouse. However, the app has been downloaded only 140,000 times to date on Apple's China App Store, compared with Clubhouse's 3.9 million installs by the first week of February, according to data analytics firm SensorTower.

"It's not about Clubhouse's technology being better than other apps. Everybody is using the same [software development kit] for audio," said Kenichiro Hara, a Tokyo-based consumer sector investor at venture capital firm DCM.

"Social apps are all about the network effect. If you come into the app and you don't see any friends, meaning you don't see any contents, then it's not a good app," said Hara. Clubhouse's ability to attract a global user base who can generate quality content to bring more new sign-ups differentiate it from other China-focused apps, he added.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Comment: Chinese companies can't escape censorship, but they can develop more global products that appeal outside of just China. There should be more of an effort by companies like Tencent, Alibaba, QQ, etc. to expand overseas.

Clubhouse content is going to go rapidly downhill as more people join.
So it is going to be an even worse social media platform for conspiracy theories and ideological divisions in the USA.

Facebook is now policing fake content on vaccines, elections theft, etc etc
But how will Clubhouse do the same, given its content is a verbal conversation and is in real-time?
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Clubhouse content is going to go rapidly downhill as more people join.
So it is going to be an even worse social media platform for conspiracy theories and ideological divisions in the USA.

Facebook is now policing fake content on vaccines, elections theft, etc etc
But how will Clubhouse do the same, given its content is a verbal conversation and is in real-time?
AI and speech recognition software will improve rapidly to answer those questions. It's not impossible, not in front of the millions of dollars thrown at it.

Its like a never ending chase.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
AI and speech recognition software will improve rapidly to answer those questions. It's not impossible, not in front of the millions of dollars thrown at it.

Its like a never ending chase.

Think about it.

Some people in the conversation will be reasonable.
Others will be extreme.

And what is said will require an unbiased human to understand the context of the words in the entire conversation.
So they are going to have to spend time to listen to the entire conversation and analyse it.

So how can a machine automatically make a determination of whether things have gone too far?

And at what point do you cut off the conversation, given that this means censoring both reasonable opinions and also the disinformation?
 
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