Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The US gov is simply now doing what everyone was saying it should have been doing 20 years ago... and since it felt like it lost so much time, its doubling down and accelerating the process...

So what the US gov is doing does make sense from its own perspective.. it knows if it does nothing that the status quo and trends all but dictate CHina will win... so its next best option is to shake things up and give itself better odds by betting ALL IN on China containment like there is no tomorrow...

I would agree that the US is doubling down on Chinese technology containment.

But if China does succeed in developing alternatives, then the long-term outcome is far worse for US technology companies.
Previously Chinese companies were fine with importing technology, but not anymore.

And given the existing size of the Chinese domestic market and also R&D spending, along with their growth rates, the smart money is on Chinese companies.
 
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weig2000

Captain
For more updated corporate R&D data, European Commission keeps a yearly updated scoreboard of global top 2500 R&D spenders.

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They also have a 10 year trend report where people can witness the fall of Japan, Inc.

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So for 2019:

World rankCompanyCountryRegionIndustryR&D 2019 (€million)R&D one-year growth (%)
1​
ALPHABETUSUSSoftware & Computer Services
23160.1​
24.36902486​
2​
MICROSOFTUSUSSoftware & Computer Services
17152.4​
14.17990045​
3​
HUAWEI INVESTMENT & HOLDINGChinaChinaTechnology Hardware & Equipment
16712.7​
31.22824218​
4​
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICSSouth KoreaRoWElectronic & Electrical Equipment
15525.0​
8.27088064​
5​
APPLEUSUSTechnology Hardware & Equipment
14435.6​
13.91542568​
6​
VOLKSWAGENGermanyEUAutomobiles & Parts
14306.0​
4.882697947​
7​
FACEBOOKUSUSSoftware & Computer Services
12106.1​
32.38586586​
8​
INTELUSUSTechnology Hardware & Equipment
11894.3​
-1.336483792​
9​
ROCHESwitzerlandRoWPharmaceuticals & Biotechnology
10753.2​
5.874898164​
10​
JOHNSON & JOHNSONUSUSPharmaceuticals & Biotechnology
10107.7​
5.382830626​

The amount is in Euro. So Huawei spent just over $20 billion on R&D, a huge 31% increase.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
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I don’t think that it would serve Biden well to do something like this so early... If he doesn’t toughen up in some other field he might end up looking like a Beijing stooge to the GOP.
 

localizer

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I don’t think that it would serve Biden well to do something like this so early... If he doesn’t toughen up in some other field he might end up looking like a Beijing stooge to the GOP.

I think the goal is to do everything in the background as much as possible. Most people have short term memory and don't really even know what wechat is.

The MAGA people already made up their minds about Xiden.

CCP Joe Xiden should do as much as possible under the cover of the impeachment trials.



From what I see so far on social media, the right hates the left like we despise FLG and HK/TW propagandists. To them, public enemy #1 is still the Dems.
 
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daifo

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I don’t think that it would serve Biden well to do something like this so early... If he doesn’t toughen up in some other field he might end up looking like a Beijing stooge to the GOP.

I think Biden is just stopping all of Trump+cronies actions that were purely meant to cause harrassment/injury/death of people. Trump and his evil cabal purposely used China / Wuhan flu because they took pleasure in knowing it would cause real life harm to asian people in the US and elsewhere. The same for wechat, cutting off families and friends was their intent.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Biden is talking tough but he's on a wait and see approach and not in a hurry to change anything. That's because as I've noted before the Republicans are ready to pounce even if Biden chooses not to change anything because they want further action against China. Biden is stuck between a rock and a hard place because the Republicans are going to spin it against him anyway. They want China to surrender unconditionally so negotiating with China in any measure is a negative for the US to them. I posted earlier about Biden saying he felt no need to talk to Xi and then the next day he talked to Xi. That was domestic Biden talking to Americans but international Biden or maybe his staff was in panic because China might start to do things the US doesn't want China to do because Biden doesn't see China as important to talk to.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Biden used to handle US foreign policy when he was vice-president. The Democratic Party is wedded to the interests in Silicon Valley. I think they'll relax some of the technology restrictions (not all, mainly the ones which cause most impact on US Silicon Valley exporters). At the same time expect to see more dirty politics trying to torpedo Belt and Road projects and/or nations and attempts to "regime change" the governments of China's neighbors aligned or neutral to China. This guy supported the Maidan in Ukraine and the invasion of Iraq by the US in 2003 so you know what to expect.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The same Republicans that say Joe Biden is a Beijing puppet is the same Republicans that will vote to acquit Trump from impeachment trials no matter the amount of evidence presented.

GOP will always be anti-Biden policies no matter what he does (except if it caters to the rich corporations), so Biden doesn't need to waste time to convince the unconvicable.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
As I said many time trying to rope in Japan in effort to contain China is just futile effort It will never work because the Japanese captain of industry know which side of the bread is buttered. And by extension the rest of Asia will balk at effort to contain China. Here is an excellent article from William Pesek

No competitor, though, can rival China’s scale. Given its so far successful battle against Covid-19, 2.3% growth in 2020 and prospects for 8% this year, Japan Inc would seem to have few incentives to look back. Japanese CEOs, it seems, get something that neither Trump nor Abe did: the game is learning to live with China, not to be used as proxies in
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.

This tale, though, is as much about missed opportunities on Japan’s part as China’s rise.


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Why Japan Inc can’t and won’t quit China​

Japan's corporate giants have mostly spurned Tokyo's US-urged call to 're-shore' their China-based production facilities
By
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FEBRUARY 12, 2021

TOKYO – As the fog of economic war lifts, the ways in which China outmaneuvered Donald Trump’s White House are becoming clearer. Nowhere more so than in Japan, a nation the former US president tried hard to pull out of China’s commercial orbit.

Though Trump’s decoupling-from-China imperative was rather America-centric, he cajoled Tokyo early and often to join the battle. And Shinzo Abe, prime minister from 2012 to 2020 and old-school Japanese nationalist, was happy to oblige.

Abe pursued an ambitious “
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” scheme. And in the last six months of his premiership, which ended last September, he leaned into supply chain disruptions related to the coronavirus. He even sweetened the deal, offering subsidies to companies bringing jobs back from China.

The scheme hasn’t gone well, if a September 2020 survey by the Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO) is any guide. JETRO found that only 7.2% of Japanese companies operating in China either planned or considered shifting production out of China. That is down from an already paltry 9.2% in 2019.

The real figure is arguably even lower. Given the historical antipathy between Japan and China, few CEOs want to admit they’re not at least mulling decreasing exposure to President Xi Jinping’s nation. It follows, then, that the number of manufacturers scouting production sites on the other side of the East China Sea is far smaller.


That said, Abe’s team — and Trump’s, too — should’ve known the policy had little potential from Toyota Motors. Top-down Tokyo loves a precedent and none matters more than what the global vanguard of Japan Inc does.

Back in 2015, Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda reaffirmed the auto giant’s intention to follow where the growth is. And that meant — and still means — China. Xi’s economy was a major beneficiary of Toyota’s plan that year to lavish $1.4 billion on new factories.
 
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