Chinese semiconductor industry

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Oldschool

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Have you notice any upticks in the ordering of SMEE mature 90nm lithography equipments by domestic firms as Chinese government learned from it's mistakes as recent numerous wasteful advanced fab (sub 20nm) startups failed. Chinese government now encouraged mature process subsidies such 0.13um for EV sector. This should boost up SMEE mature equipments. I also wonder how many domestic and state firms using the SSA600 and SSC600 so far? They should be alot for mature process products.
 

WTAN

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Have you notice any upticks in the ordering of SMEE mature 90nm lithography equipments by domestic firms as Chinese government learned from it's mistakes as recent numerous wasteful advanced fab (sub 20nm) startups failed. Chinese government now encouraged mature process subsidies such 0.13um for EV sector. This should boost up SMEE mature equipments. I also wonder how many domestic and state firms using the SSA600 and SSC600 so far? They should be alot for mature process products.
The SMEE 90nm Lithograph was first delivered in 2016 and actually has a large market share in China in its segment which is for mature processes of 90nm and higher.
It is actually priced competitively and is popular with local FABs. It gives stiff competition to similar products from Nikon and ASML.
We dont really hear much about the SSA600 as everyone is mainly interested in the latest processes like 7nm and the latest products from ASML.
The SMEE 65nm DUVL is currently being mass produced and will be just as successful.
The SMEE 28nm DUVL is also guaranteed to be successful due to the sanctions on Chinese FABs.
Thats why ASML, Nikon and Canon are starting to panic as they will lose market share in DUVL.
They are making assurances that their equipment are not affected by any US sanctions but the Chinese FABs just dont really believe them at all.
Once the SMEE DUVL becomes available, foreign DUVL sales in China will become non-existent.
 

emblem21

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The SMEE 90nm Lithograph was first delivered in 2016 and actually has a large market share in China in its segment which is for mature processes of 90nm and higher.
It is actually priced competitively and is popular with local FABs. It gives stiff competition to similar products from Nikon and ASML.
We dont really hear much about the SSA600 as everyone is mainly interested in the latest processes like 7nm and the latest products from ASML.
The SMEE 65nm DUVL is currently being mass produced and will be just as successful.
The SMEE 28nm DUVL is also guaranteed to be successful due to the sanctions on Chinese FABs.
Thats why ASML, Nikon and Canon are starting to panic as they will lose market share in DUVL.
They are making assurances that their equipment are not affected by any US sanctions but the Chinese FABs just dont really believe them at all.
Once the SMEE DUVL becomes available, foreign DUVL sales in China will become non-existent.
Hence why this will encourage other nations to develop technologies that doesn't have US parts in them so that they cannot be sanctioned. And also given that China is the only nation that can innovate compared to the USA, this will cut the amount of companies that would want to use the US tech given that it is almost always used as a bargaining chip
 

Alb

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Have you notice any upticks in the ordering of SMEE mature 90nm lithography equipments by domestic firms as Chinese government learned from it's mistakes as recent numerous wasteful advanced fab (sub 20nm) startups failed. Chinese government now encouraged mature process subsidies such 0.13um for EV sector. This should boost up SMEE mature equipments. I also wonder how many domestic and state firms using the SSA600 and SSC600 so far? They should be alot for mature process products.
In his resignation letter Liang Mong Song said that 7nm will be mass produced at SMIC in April this year. Furthermore the technology down to 3nm has been developed and the only obstacle to mass production is the EUV tool. Once China get hold of the EUV tool either from the Dutch or self developed together with Japan SMIC will be on pair with TSMC and Samsung. I think China will continue aiming for excellence and not focus on mature technologies only!
 

Oldschool

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In his resignation letter Liang Mong Song said that 7nm will be mass produced at SMIC in April this year. Furthermore the technology down to 3nm has been developed and the only obstacle to mass production is the EUV tool. Once China get hold of the EUV tool either from the Dutch or self developed together with Japan SMIC will be on pair with TSMC and Samsung. I think China will continue aiming for excellence and not focus on mature technologies only!
I doubt US would allow ASML to sell EUV to China.
Majority of semiconductor needs can be satisfied with 28nm and lower.
 

Oldschool

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Not smartphones, PCs, Servers etc..
For the time being, 7nm and below products China need to buy from foreign firms. SMIC probably won't able to get chemicals and materials for sub 10nm process due to under US entity list. I am not optimistic about their N+1 production.

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China trying to patch up the technology that they neglected in the past. Starting from 28nm for fully self sufficiency. After that 14nm and so on.

For Chinese military , 28nm is sufficient
 

Oldschool

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SMIC may have to put sub-14nm process development on hold.

I can see why SMIC didn't bother to consult Liang for hiring of Chiang shang-yi . US sanction of SMIC for sub 10nm means Liang path becoming a dead end. N+1, N+2 may not be realizable using US tech. This means Chiang's chiplet tech is vital for current process such as 28 and 14nm.

US sanction of Huawei even more severe. It approved TSMC for Huawei only 28nm and above.
 

Orthan

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For the time being, 7nm and below products China need to buy from foreign firms. SMIC probably won't able to get chemicals and materials for sub 10nm process due to under US entity list. I am not optimistic about their N+1 production.
Kinda of like when japan cut off chemicals supplies to south korea. Like china, south korea has also been making moves to cut dependence in foreign chip tech/materials, but even for them, its not easy.

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weig2000

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SMIC may have to put sub-14nm process development on hold.

I can see why SMIC didn't bother to consult Liang for hiring of Chiang shang-yi . US sanction of SMIC for sub 10nm means Liang path becoming a dead end. N+1, N+2 may not be realizable using US tech. This means Chiang's chiplet tech is vital for current process such as 28 and 14nm.

US sanction of Huawei even more severe. It approved TSMC for Huawei only 28nm and above.

SMIC's 14nm capacity currently is underutilized, in contrast to its above 28nm capacity utilization (in the high 90's). The truth is that the vast majority of the chip demands in China are for 28nm and above. Huawei is probably the only Chinese company that has large volume needs for advanced nodes chips (=<7nm). Outside Huawei, other Chinese chip design companies have access to fabs for advanced nodes needs.

So the US sanctions are primarily felt by Huawei, and mainly for its smartphone division. The largest growing demands for chips in China in next five years are in cloud computing, data centers, EV, IoT, etc. All these don't need 7/5/3nm in the foreseeable future.

For the Chinese semiconductor industry, again, it's much more important to have a self-reliant supply chain in semiconductor manufacturing than claiming some latest and greatest advances in the cutting edge of chip manufacturing. That'll come when China has largely caught up and built indigenous capabilities in critical areas of the supply chain--right now the gaps are pretty large. It doesn't even have to be 100% complete or self-sufficient, because by then, the US will realize how self-defeating its sanction policies are and it would not want to miss the market opportunities in China any longer.


Kinda of like when japan cut off chemicals supplies to south korea. Like china, south korea has also been making moves to cut dependence in foreign chip tech/materials, but even for them, its not easy.

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Japan's sanction of South Korea on semiconductor materials is a textbook example of shooting in one's foot. It did cause some initial panic and disruptions in South Korea semiconductor industry, but in the end they were able to alleviate it with indigenous capabilities and sourcing from other countries.

Japanese sanction was largely "inspired" by the US sanctions against China. So the US sanctions have its unintended consequences. Now even EU has committed huge funds and started initiative to develop its independent semiconductor capabilities. It's not market efficient, to be sure, but who can you blame?
 
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