Chinese Economics Thread

[AssassinsMace]

yeahh Trump basically due to his ego and jealousy to Obama ruined TPP ... but heyyy, thats great for China

RCEP is great and will be sign next month (Nov), not sure what the main reasons India opted out in 2019 ?

Make in India was all about if foreigners want to sell their products in India, they would have to make them in India. That doesn't sound like they would do well in a multilateral trade agreement.

 

[Wangxi]

Where are China’s SaaS giants?

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[manqiangrexue]

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Stock market boom, new listings mint China billionaires at record pace

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•October 20, 2020

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China is minting new billionaires at a record pace despite an economy bruised by the coronavirus pandemic, thanks to booming share prices and a spate of new stock listings, according to a list released on Tuesday.

The Hurun China Rich List 2020 also highlights China's accelerated shift away from traditional sectors like manufacturing and real estate, towards e-commerce, fintech and other new economy industries.

Jack Ma, founder of Alibaba <9988.HK>, retained the top spot for the third year in a row, with his personal wealth jumping 45% to $58.8 billion partly due to the impending mega-listing of fintech giant Ant Group.

Ant is expected to create more mega-rich through what is likely to be the world's biggest IPO, as it plans to raise an estimated $35 billion through a dual listing in Shanghai and Hong Kong.

The combined wealth of those on the Hurun China list - with an individual wealth cut-off of 2 billion yuan ($299.14 million) - totaled $4 trillion, more than the annual gross domestic product (GDP) of Germany, according to Rupert Hoogewerf, the Hurun Report's chairman.

More wealth was created this year than in the previous five years combined, with China's rich-listers adding $1.5 trillion, roughly half the size of Britain's GDP.

Booming stock markets and a flurry of new listings have created five new dollar billionaires in China a week for the past year, Hoogewerf said in a statement.

"The world has never seen this much wealth created in just one year. China's entrepreneurs have done much better than expected. Despite Covid-19 they have risen to record levels."

According to a separate estimate by PwC and UBS, only billionaires in the United States possessed greater combined wealth than those in mainland China.

China has accelerated capital market reforms to aid a virus-hit economy, accelerate economic restructuring and fund a "tech war" with the United States.

To expedite initial public offerings (IPOs), regulators launched a U.S.-style IPO system on Shanghai's Nasdaq-style STAR Market and Shenzhen's ChiNext. Chinese corporate listings in Hong Kong and Nasdaq have also turbocharged the fortunes of company founders.

 

[bomberman]

Sorry, but this is overly simplistic representation of reality.

Hello Nobonita Barua

Can you provide your thought on why the author view is not representation of reality?

Thank you

 

[Kaeshmiri]

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Stock market boom, new listings mint China billionaires at record pace

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•October 20, 2020

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China is minting new billionaires at a record pace despite an economy bruised by the coronavirus pandemic, thanks to booming share prices and a spate of new stock listings, according to a list released on Tuesday.

The Hurun China Rich List 2020 also highlights China's accelerated shift away from traditional sectors like manufacturing and real estate, towards e-commerce, fintech and other new economy industries.

Jack Ma, founder of Alibaba <9988.HK>, retained the top spot for the third year in a row, with his personal wealth jumping 45% to $58.8 billion partly due to the impending mega-listing of fintech giant Ant Group.

Ant is expected to create more mega-rich through what is likely to be the world's biggest IPO, as it plans to raise an estimated $35 billion through a dual listing in Shanghai and Hong Kong.

The combined wealth of those on the Hurun China list - with an individual wealth cut-off of 2 billion yuan ($299.14 million) - totaled $4 trillion, more than the annual gross domestic product (GDP) of Germany, according to Rupert Hoogewerf, the Hurun Report's chairman.

More wealth was created this year than in the previous five years combined, with China's rich-listers adding $1.5 trillion, roughly half the size of Britain's GDP.

Booming stock markets and a flurry of new listings have created five new dollar billionaires in China a week for the past year, Hoogewerf said in a statement.

"The world has never seen this much wealth created in just one year. China's entrepreneurs have done much better than expected. Despite Covid-19 they have risen to record levels."

According to a separate estimate by PwC and UBS, only billionaires in the United States possessed greater combined wealth than those in mainland China.

China has accelerated capital market reforms to aid a virus-hit economy, accelerate economic restructuring and fund a "tech war" with the United States.

To expedite initial public offerings (IPOs), regulators launched a U.S.-style IPO system on Shanghai's Nasdaq-style STAR Market and Shenzhen's ChiNext. Chinese corporate listings in Hong Kong and Nasdaq have also turbocharged the fortunes of company founders.

Too many Billionaires arent a healthy sign for society. All it does is signal inequality. Inequality becomes the root cause of civil unrest sooner or later.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Too many Billionaires arent a healthy sign for society. All it does is signal inequality. Inequality becomes the root cause of civil unrest sooner or later.

Well, only if the rich are getting richer while the poor/middle class is getting poorer. In China's case, basically everyone is getting richer and the middle class is expanding. With this growth across the board, more billionaires are coming to being. I would say that that is healthy growth. You simply can't have an advanced society with no/very few uber rich because that means that your societal structure is keeping them down and that will cause them to leave to other countries that let them accumulate wealth.

 

[Kaeshmiri]

Well, only if the rich are getting richer while the poor/middle class is getting poorer. In China's case, basically everyone is getting richer and the middle class is expanding. With this growth across the board, more billionaires are coming to being. I would say that that is healthy growth. You simply can't have an advanced society with no/very few uber rich because that means that your societal structure is keeping them down and that will cause them to leave to other countries that let them accumulate wealth.

I think this a very problematic argument and is often used by Billionaires in US who refuse to pay higher taxes and threaten to leave with their wealth. But history has shown that none of this ever happens.
What I'm saying is that mobility should be seen in relative terms. A society is unequal if the middle class doubles their wealth but the super rich quadruples theirs. The super rich have exploited the system at the expense of the middle class. Eventually the middle class stops gaining wealth which is precisely what has happened to the American middle class. China should avoid going that route before its too late.

 

[localizer]

I think this a very problematic argument and is often used by Billionaires in US who refuse to pay higher taxes and threaten to leave with their wealth. But history has shown that none of this ever happens.
What I'm saying is that mobility should be seen in relative terms. A society is unequal if the middle class doubles their wealth but the super rich quadruples theirs. The super rich have exploited the system at the expense of the middle class. Eventually the middle class stops gaining wealth which is precisely what has happened to the American middle class. China should avoid going that route before its too late.

But Chinese save money. China is a creditor nation that has physical products backing its GDP.



Chinese have accumulate significant wealth despite only 20 years or so of quality GDP growth.

I expect Chinese wealth to be > 200 trillion in like another couple decades.


Along with that accumulated wealth comes accumulation of military as well .

 

[manqiangrexue]

I think this a very problematic argument and is often used by Billionaires in US who refuse to pay higher taxes and threaten to leave with their wealth. But history has shown that none of this ever happens.

America has huge income inequality and many uber rich. They didn't leave because the government listened to the argument and allowed them to continue to be uber rich. If you crippled their assets with absurd amounts of tax and there were other countries that don't, they'd be moving and that effect will be more pronounced in China than in America because resources per capita is much higher in the US due to lower population.

What I'm saying is that mobility should be seen in relative terms. A society is unequal if the middle class doubles their wealth but the super rich quadruples theirs. The super rich have exploited the system at the expense of the middle class.

If your wealth doubled but your uber rich neighbor's wealth quadrupled, you'd throw a riot? I wouldn't. Social instability occurs when too many people are in dire straits with nothing to lose looking up at those living in ivory towers who insist that nothing can change. It does NOT happen because people who are increasingly wealthy with improving quality of life are peeved that other people are getting even richer.

Eventually the middle class stops gaining wealth which is precisely what has happened to the American middle class. China should avoid going that route before its too late.

Where is the connection? China's middle class is climbing in wealth so where in this equation does the middle class simply stagnate? If that happens, we're looking at a different situation than in China.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

I think this a very problematic argument and is often used by Billionaires in US who refuse to pay higher taxes and threaten to leave with their wealth. But history has shown that none of this ever happens.
What I'm saying is that mobility should be seen in relative terms. A society is unequal if the middle class doubles their wealth but the super rich quadruples theirs. The super rich have exploited the system at the expense of the middle class. Eventually the middle class stops gaining wealth which is precisely what has happened to the American middle class. China should avoid going that route before its too late.

That is not true at the beginning of the reform DXP know this sentiment but he persuade and cajole Chinese masses that eventually they too will get some of this wealth pie. I don't have any problem some people get rich as long as they earn it legally It provide a role model for the rest of citizen as if saying "look you can become rich too here is an example". The Chinese reform successful because it put the onus on the individual. Nobody owe no one a living you have to earn it yourself

The problem with developing country like BD or PK or India is they emphasize of distribution rather than accumulation and enamored with Socialism But as LKY said you need to increase the size if pie first before you divide it because small pie everybody just got nothin if you divide it