News on China's scientific and technological development.

[mderfox]

Hi mderfox,

Welcome to SDF, since you are new here allow me to repost WTAN comment for your perusal



I think SMIC should be able to operate the FABS normally as they have technicians that have already been trained by ASML and other companies. They will continue to produce Chips till the equipment breaks down or runs out of parts.

But remember that the new SMEE 28nm Litho is ready by the end of the year and this will take over from the ASML equipment. The equipment from Naura ,North Industries and CETC are all fairly advanced as well and can be used as replacements for the equipment from LAM, KLA Tencor etc.



Actually, even if Trump does not go ahead to sanction SMIC, the damage has already been done. Chinese FABs will find it too risky to buy American equipment. The next President might just finish what Trump did not do. This is bad news for all American equipment manufacturers as well as Japanese and European.

I have done some analysis and i conclude that SMIC will not be affected much at all by this American sanctions. Remember that the SMIC 14nm Chip production business only makes up a small amount of revenue for SMIC. If i can recall only 2-5% of SMIC total revenue. Can someone please find this article?
Most of SMIC revenue comes from sales of Chips 22nm/28nm and above.
Worse case scenario the 14nm FAB will be shut down.
The other FABs can switch over to using the SMEE 45nm Immersion Lithograph and also the new 28nm Immersion Lithograph. As i have said, China already has produced a localised 28nm production line which can be used to replace the foreign equipment. Reconditioned equipment can also be used with spares provided by local companies.
The sanctions will only affect SMICs 14nm and future 7nm Chip plans. But plans are underway to address the production of 14nm and 7nm using the new 28nm Immersion Lithograph.
SMIC will survive this and come out stronger.
Also if SMIC is sanctioned, it can continue to produce 14nm Chips for Huawei 5g Base Stations and Mid Range Mobile Phones.

Hi pleasure.

Problems with SMIC they used a lots of US input product. FYI SMIC spend 11% on ASML. For the biggest China suppliers company is nly 2.3%. safe to say many lithography machine coming from ASML.

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That's why im not optimistic about SMIC. Many procurement on oldest generation like 28nm and 45nm also from ASML. Changing to SMEE it will make SMIC bleeding. The only way SMIC succumbed to US demand like ZTE.

 

[hullopilllw]

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[Shaolian]

New discovery today: According to Western headlines convention, China is easily "angered", while America is routinely "alarmed".

 

[ansy1968]

Hi pleasure.

Problems with SMIC they used a lots of US input product. FYI SMIC spend 11% on ASML. For the biggest China suppliers company is nly 2.3%. safe to say many lithography machine coming from ASML.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

That's why im not optimistic about SMIC. Many procurement on oldest generation like 28nm and 45nm also from ASML. Changing to SMEE it will make SMIC bleeding. The only way SMIC succumbed to US demand like ZTE.

Hi mderfox,

I understand your concern, but there are no other recourse but to stay domestic/ingenious. Luckily SMEE new DUVL 28NM lithograph is due this year and SMIC is building one now in BEIJING. Its might take a year or two for SMIC to proficiently handle the equipment but this machine can do 14nm and 7nm or even 5nm? with multi patterning. As WTAN had posted before all domestic 14nm equipment will be ready 2021 , 7nm maybe at 2022. We had to wait next year to verified all of these. hopefully you stay , a lot of news and info regarding China IC will leak out and WTAN, KYLi, Skywatcher and other experts will provide it for us. It will be an exciting year.

 

[manqiangrexue]

I could be wrong, but post the link to the site that states that the US government needs china to buy US chips.

It was a tweet by some senator or congressman I cannot find again unfortunately (and I did try) but found that even you know this:

News on China's scientific and technological development.

technode article about huawei Intel license shows US wants Huawei to rely on its chips: expert · TechNode I seems that the US government wants huawei to use US chips and that huawei wont be able to get its self-develop chips built anywhere. Also, huawei chip stock may last 4 up to 10 months...

www.sinodefenceforum.com

Unless your focus is on the word "need" which would be a pointless digression because "need" can mean anything from needing to expand business to needing to maintain an advantage to needing something to survive, either technologically or physically. It is meaningless to bold that word and make it the focus.

First, its china that needs to replicate the entire chip manufacturing chain, not my country. Second, lets see WHEN will they manage to do that AND keep competitive...

Oh, you want to play the game, "China this, not my country?" OK

It is China that has more STEM graduates than the entire combined developed world, not your country.
It is China that publishes more research articles every year than any other nation, not your country.
It is China that has cutting-edge technology in every scientific field, not your country.
It is China that has the highest GDP PPP in the world flush with resources to invest into development, not your country.
It is China that has world-beating 5G technology, not your country.
It is China that commands an economy and technology sector that both expand at the fastest rate in the world, not your country.
It is China that has overcome every technological challenge put before it, not your country... well, actually, maybe your country too on this one but only because it is too small both physically and technologically for anyone to bother challenging.

 

[manqiangrexue]

US is just setting up a trap for China. If Qualcomm is allowed to supply, and Huawei decides to take it, then it is a big blow China's ambition in self sufficiency in Chip supply. But I believe anything I can think of, the Chinese government had already thought many steps ahead.

It's no trap (that any intelligent company or country can fall into). Qualcomm needs/wants to sell chips. Even if Huawei buys Qualcomm chips, it will still never stop Huawei or other Chinese companies with forging ahead to replace US tech. It's far too late. It's the worst strategy for the US to drag the matter on so long with so many threats only to keep supplying. If anything, Qualcomm chips will give Huawei continued high end cellphone revenue which it can invest back into its own lithography research (although I doubt Huawei's money is limited). Of course, it also gives Qualcomm money to move ahead with its chip design. Same race.

That's why im not optimistic about SMIC. Many procurement on oldest generation like 28nm and 45nm also from ASML. Changing to SMEE it will make SMIC bleeding. The only way SMIC succumbed to US demand like ZTE.

Well, they can bleed now and become self-sufficient in the future or they can swallow a time bomb and accept a leash over their necks. For anybody, that's a no-brainer. If SMIC was important, China would make sure they go the former route, but if reports are true that Huawei is poaching SMIC engineers in significant numbers, then that may be a sign that SMIC isn't China's racehorse.

 

[kaybee]

I'm puzzled at the notion that SMIC will not able to continue production after the US sanction due to having US technologies in their wafer fab equipment. The sanction should only affect SMIC ability to procure blank wafers and other chemicals required for fabrication, of which there are local suppliers in China. It will also lost its US customers such as Qualcomm, Broadcom etc. The sanction on SMIC actually neutralize the earlier ban on supplier using US technology from selling to Huawei, in fact it has open up SMIC capacity for Huawei and other domestic fabless semiconductor companies in China. In summary, SMIC being virtually ban from supplying Huawei since using US equipment, SMIC now banned as well, so SMIC can use banned equipment that it own to supply Huawei as both of them in the same boat.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

I could be wrong, but post the link to the site that states that the US government needs china to buy US chips.



First, its china that needs to replicate the entire chip manufacturing chain, not my country. Second, lets see WHEN will they manage to do that AND keep competitive...

Quick question since you're Portugese: did China buy your country's electricity grid? I remember hearing something about that a while back, but you're just so small and insignificant that I never bothered following up on it.

 

[ougoah]

It's up to China to show the world it is at the cutting edge of XYZ technology says the angry person from a country that hasn't got a foot into the obsolete generation of said technology. It's always this way. The Indian that says China's all very meh because it hasn't got nuclear fusion worked out... when India hasn't worked out how to even detonate a fusion device. Why hold yourselves to such low standards and China to such high standards? I get it, because China is supposed to be that much better right? hahaha that's the implication from your own logic!

 

[styx]

when biden will win the elections it will be business as usual with china. Trust me