Hong-Kong Protests

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
manqiangrexue, do not get sucked into having to defend China on "breaking" an international agreement.

China did not and have not broken her promise relative to One Country Two System as spelled out by the Basic Law of Hong Kong which is agreed to by UK and China. That is Western MSM narrative to justify their continuous lies about what is going on in Hong Kong to justify their interference of an internal policy of China.

As I have explained several times in this thread, China applies the Article 18 and Annex III in the Basic Law of Hong Kong, a right given to her as part of the agreement with UK, to implement what were required for Hong Kong to implement per Article 23, but which Hong Kong failed to do so for 23 years.

@Mr T

Without the businesses, Hong Kong has no reason to exist.
It's already grossly overpopulated given it has very little flat land.

Businesses swallow 'bitter medicine' of Hong Kong security law.
Executives are willing to accept contentious legislation in exchange for halt to unrest

Financial Times London
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Beijing’s message to Hong Kong: ‘We waited for you guys long enough

FInancial Times London
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm gonna wait for May and June labor participation numbers before judging these things.

I'm looking at the situation again, and even I'm surprised at how fast things have escalated in the USA.

Thinking about it, the Police must be stir-crazy from the lockdown as well, and are lashing out on the streets.

So you're going to have both the police and the protesters/rioters taking out their anger and frustrations on each other.

That would apply to Hong Kong as well, although to a lesser extent.
 

foxmulder_ms

Junior Member
How many of my comments can you post here where I've supported the US and UK governments? Oddly enough, I will at some point support something they do, but it's hardly a daily occurance - although good luck finding lots of comments where I've praised Trump.



No, I haven't. There are good and bad Hong Kong police, just like in the US. Although trust in the police in Hong Kong hit rock-bottom at the end of last year, so it's probably fair to say that they are being heavy-handed.

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The protests have gone on for so long because so many people have been involved. The HK police can't lock up hundreds of thousands/millions of people. If a territory like Hong Kong has near-constant protests for such a long time it shows a complete failure of leadership and an absence of good governance.

If you want to argue it's primarily the fault of the Hong Kong government, Carrie Lam and the pro-CCP parties that have a majority of seats in the legislative, I'm willing to accept that. There is much to be said that Beijing has been mislead by special interest groups that want to maintain the status-quo and are resistant to things like abolishing the functional constituencies (because that's where most of their power resides).

However, the CCP is still partly responsible. It has intervened, such as in "interpreting" what a valid oath for a HK legislator is rather than leaving it to the Hong Kong courts, it's also publicly backed Carrie Lam to the hilt, when Beijing could have demanded her resignation for incompetence. Her head on a plate last year would have significantly increased the chances of most of the protesters going home.



Arguably it was pretty good under British rule. The economy did really well, the city's growth seemed to have no end and there was high confidence in the police. People fled from mainland China to Hong Kong, rather than the other way around. We also gave Hong Kong rule of law. Just because there weren't elections for the governor didn't mean there wasn't a high degree of freedom in Hong Kong. (As an aside, if the governor had been elected Hong Kong wouldn't have been a colony, rather it would have been an independent city-state.)

Also, whether or not the protesters actually think colonial Hong Kong was better has nothing to do whether they have any valid grievances.



I'm not saying the treaty was a kind gesture, I'm saying it was a treaty. Something that both parties are supposed to agree to. If China had got Hong Kong back via a show of force it wouldn't have signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration at all.

Also I think you're insulting the memories of the CCP politicians like Deng Xiaoping and Zhao Ziyang who created the Sino-British Joint Declaration in the first place. There was some pushing and shoving over it, but it was all diplomatic and done in good faith.



You need to calm down. No one has said any political system is morally superior. The issue is what the CCP promised for 50 years. If China's promises don't mean anything because they can be reversed on a whim, well fine, but don't complain if people start saying China isn't trustworthy.

lol..

And again, HK was a drug base for british to sell drugs. Later it become rich because it was a window for mainland China. You are not going to trick anyone here with your lies. You only trick yourself. If Deng was around, HK would have been totally absorbed by Mainland like 10 times now. Deng was a very strict leader when it came to order. Stability was his #1 concern.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
"Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones"


US protesters are better behaved than Hongkong terrorists who beat anyone that speaks a word of mandarin.
 
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I was looking at all the incident that spur the black lives matter movement, many of which had killings caught on camera. Yet none of the perpetrators was ever convicted of the crime they had committed. Most of them were not even indicted for the killing.

It is extremely rare for any police abuse to lead to indictment, let alone conviction. The only exception I can recall was a conviction of an ethnic Chinese NYPD rookie cop who accidentally shot a victim in the dark stairway during an official police operation. But this was more an accident and was not even a racially motivated killing.

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- Acquitted for the shooting of Trayvon Martin (17 years old)
Darren Wilson - did not indict for Shooting of Michael Brown
Daniel Pantaleo - did not indict for Shooting of
Eric Garner
Timothy Loehmann - did not indict for Shooting of Tamir Rice (12-years old)


Does the US not respect black human lives, let alone black human rights?

Politicians would always voice their outrage each time and promise to reform the law enforcement agencies. But all odd these has been lip services without any tangible action and result. Hence, the tragedy keeps repeating itself.

I suggest the US to respect the human rights of the Black people within the US first.

Similarly, war crimes committed by US military personnel have pretty much gone unpunished.
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US does not have much standing in lecturing anyone about human rights since they have failed miserably in their deeds.

At the end of these ordeal, sad to say that I am not optimistic that Black Lives will Matter from the US justice system. They system is corrupt and excessively stacked against Black people in America.

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How many of my comments can you post here where I've supported the US and UK governments? Oddly enough, I will at some point support something they do, but it's hardly a daily occurance - although good luck finding lots of comments where I've praised Trump.



No, I haven't. There are good and bad Hong Kong police, just like in the US. Although trust in the police in Hong Kong hit rock-bottom at the end of last year, so it's probably fair to say that they are being heavy-handed.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



The protests have gone on for so long because so many people have been involved. The HK police can't lock up hundreds of thousands/millions of people. If a territory like Hong Kong has near-constant protests for such a long time it shows a complete failure of leadership and an absence of good governance.

If you want to argue it's primarily the fault of the Hong Kong government, Carrie Lam and the pro-CCP parties that have a majority of seats in the legislative, I'm willing to accept that. There is much to be said that Beijing has been mislead by special interest groups that want to maintain the status-quo and are resistant to things like abolishing the functional constituencies (because that's where most of their power resides).

However, the CCP is still partly responsible. It has intervened, such as in "interpreting" what a valid oath for a HK legislator is rather than leaving it to the Hong Kong courts, it's also publicly backed Carrie Lam to the hilt, when Beijing could have demanded her resignation for incompetence. Her head on a plate last year would have significantly increased the chances of most of the protesters going home.



Arguably it was pretty good under British rule. The economy did really well, the city's growth seemed to have no end and there was high confidence in the police. People fled from mainland China to Hong Kong, rather than the other way around. We also gave Hong Kong rule of law. Just because there weren't elections for the governor didn't mean there wasn't a high degree of freedom in Hong Kong. (As an aside, if the governor had been elected Hong Kong wouldn't have been a colony, rather it would have been an independent city-state.)

Also, whether or not the protesters actually think colonial Hong Kong was better has nothing to do whether they have any valid grievances.



I'm not saying the treaty was a kind gesture, I'm saying it was a treaty. Something that both parties are supposed to agree to. If China had got Hong Kong back via a show of force it wouldn't have signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration at all.

Also I think you're insulting the memories of the CCP politicians like Deng Xiaoping and Zhao Ziyang who created the Sino-British Joint Declaration in the first place. There was some pushing and shoving over it, but it was all diplomatic and done in good faith.



You need to calm down. No one has said any political system is morally superior. The issue is what the CCP promised for 50 years. If China's promises don't mean anything because they can be reversed on a whim, well fine, but don't complain if people start saying China isn't trustworthy.

Carrie Lam and President Xi has handled the protest much better despite western instigation and intervention.

1. No hard crackdown
2. Freedom of speech
3. Hands off approach by central government

Same cannot be said of US handling the George Floyd protest despite lack of foreign instigation and intervention and real human rights violation. Sadly, I am not optimistic justice will be served for George Floyd and Black People in general.
 
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supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
How many of my comments can you post here where I've supported the US and UK governments? Oddly enough, I will at some point support something they do, but it's hardly a daily occurance - although good luck finding lots of comments where I've praised Trump.

No, I haven't. There are good and bad Hong Kong police, just like in the US. Although trust in the police in Hong Kong hit rock-bottom at the end of last year, so it's probably fair to say that they are being heavy-handed.

I was only half serious, which is why I parroted your choice of words. But you already said yourself, there are good and bad cops in the HK/US. Your video of one good cop really doesn’t absolve an undeniably racial policing problem in America. Just as an “HK police superintendent” NOT making such a speech makes them a “bad cop”.

Of course having public trust is a key indicator of “good” police work, so there is room for improvement there. However, I definitely think that the scale of the protests were aided by external forces.

The protests have gone on for so long because so many people have been involved. The HK police can't lock up hundreds of thousands/millions of people. If a territory like Hong Kong has near-constant protests for such a long time it shows a complete failure of leadership and an absence of good governance.

If you want to argue it's primarily the fault of the Hong Kong government, Carrie Lam and the pro-CCP parties that have a majority of seats in the legislative, I'm willing to accept that. There is much to be said that Beijing has been mislead by special interest groups that want to maintain the status-quo and are resistant to things like abolishing the functional constituencies (because that's where most of their power resides).

However, the CCP is still partly responsible. It has intervened, such as in "interpreting" what a valid oath for a HK legislator is rather than leaving it to the Hong Kong courts, it's also publicly backed Carrie Lam to the hilt, when Beijing could have demanded her resignation for incompetence. Her head on a plate last year would have significantly increased the chances of most of the protesters going home.

The millions of protestors has been debunked. I can agree that Carrie Lam’s leadership and the establishment faction is lacking. However, if Beijing were to force Carrie Lam to resign, do you honestly think all of the western media would not be gloating over “Beijing’s heavy hand” or whatever?

You already think the oath taking is a big deal (which technically is a “national” issue), but booting out the chief executive is something they just should’ve done?

I don’t think the central government is really to blame at all in this case.

Arguably it was pretty good under British rule. The economy did really well, the city's growth seemed to have no end and there was high confidence in the police. People fled from mainland China to Hong Kong, rather than the other way around. We also gave Hong Kong rule of law. Just because there weren't elections for the governor didn't mean there wasn't a high degree of freedom in Hong Kong. (As an aside, if the governor had been elected Hong Kong wouldn't have been a colony, rather it would have been an independent city-state.)

Also, whether or not the protesters actually think colonial Hong Kong was better has nothing to do whether they have any valid grievances.

If economic measures were the primary indicator, then protestors should be begging for the end of two systems. The UK did not “give” anything to HK except capital and stability (which is admittedly important). People did not flee the mainland for “rule of law”. They fled mainly for economic opportunities.

High confidence in police? Only in the later years. Otherwise the establishment of ICAC was only in 70’s, and police were definitely seen as suppressive in the 60’s. I suppose in the 50’s Brits were better than Kempeitai...

The colonial and American flags don’t invalidate grievances, but they are a no doubt indicator of foreign influence to exacerbate the situation.

I'm not saying the treaty was a kind gesture, I'm saying it was a treaty. Something that both parties are supposed to agree to. If China had got Hong Kong back via a show of force it wouldn't have signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration at all.

Also I think you're insulting the memories of the CCP politicians like Deng Xiaoping and Zhao Ziyang who created the Sino-British Joint Declaration in the first place. There was some pushing and shoving over it, but it was all diplomatic and done in good faith.

There would be no negotiation if China was not in a position of power. That is just realpolitik.

You need to calm down. No one has said any political system is morally superior. The issue is what the CCP promised for 50 years. If China's promises don't mean anything because they can be reversed on a whim, well fine, but don't complain if people start saying China isn't trustworthy.

I am calm! You see what is happening in the US? That is what happens when all the problems boil up! I am just posting on the internet! You might not be saying it, but this is what Chinese people have to hear EVERY SINGLE DAY. How China is evil, how showing any admiration to your ancestral/home is somehow disloyal to your adopted (or only for native-born) country just because the government isn’t considered friendly. It’s total BS. In Canada, the federal public health head was accused of putting Chinese interests ahead of Canadian ones by a (fringe) leadership candidate of a major political party. This is a woman who technically never held any Chinese nationality and educated only in Commonwealth countries! Basically singled out purely out of racist spite.

1C2S is not being violated. I find this a convenient political football being kicked around to excuse abhorrent behaviour. Flying foreign flags, attacking of Fujianese, destruction of businesses, terrorizing children of police, these are not the actions of “peaceful protestors”. These are actions that the “leaders” of the anti government camp refuse to denounce. Look at that racist BS Tom Cotton regurgitates on a regular basis. Somehow HK rioters are noble, but Americans should be executed for treason? What a joke.
 
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