Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.
- Thread starter tidalwave
- Start date
- Status
Your research is incorrect. AMEC's etchers are already at the cutting edge and are used by TSMC. The US gave up its export ban on etching machines in 2015 in tacit admission of that fact - no point banning them if they can make them for themselves, might as well try and sell them some of ours.
We'll find that many similar bans will be revoked in the coming years for exactly the same reason.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
None of that makes any logical sense! Firstly, why would you make concessions to someone who continues to go all out on you? The whole point of concessions is to ease your opponent's attack. Secondly, "lackluster preparedness" is obviously because the lithography/semiconductor fields are ones that build on decades of experience and knowledge! Given that China reacted to the ban in the time that it did, and today, we see the swift improvements coming out of SMEE, SMIC, etc..., who can call that lackluster? I don't think any country has ever improved this fast before in these areas!
You really severely underestimate the kind of people that Huawei can hire. Any time you present something with publicly-known facts, the level of your presentation is for novices, not industry experts. Huawei owns Hisilicon, which designs the Kirin chips. These people are designing top end chips (something that tidalwave has never claimed to be able to do) and don't even know how to do online searches on their own field?
Tidalwave has no idea what Huawei is prepared to do. When he made that suggestion, he didn't know where Huawei was on its black projects. Taking up an endeavor before you are technologically ready is a waste of time and your results can easily be obsolete long before they are ready. He's simply making too many assumptions about what they can and cannot do and calling one of the world's most successful companies incompetent for not listening to a nobody like him and that's just delusional.
Found some, obviously didn't look through everything he posted. Go on, bring something up and see if we can find it. It's obviously not primary research he's sharing.
Interesting. Doesn't that give China leverage over TSMC then?
I'm am also sad that @tidalwave was banned. He put on a lot of technical posts on this forum. I wonder if the ban was temporary? Maybe it can be reversed?
I would agree wholeheartedly with above posts. We need to try and look at china's success and failure from objective POV. I really want China to succeed, but I agree they seem very inexperienced at global PR. And they really need to better anticipate moves by the US and mix in more diplomacy.
I do hope we can have @tidalwave back.
I would agree wholeheartedly with above posts. We need to try and look at china's success and failure from objective POV. I really want China to succeed, but I agree they seem very inexperienced at global PR. And they really need to better anticipate moves by the US and mix in more diplomacy.
I do hope we can have @tidalwave back.
No, because while AMEC's etchers are cutting edge, they don't have a monopoly on them. Other companies make similar products. This is how I think this whole thing will ultimately shake itself out: there will be two distinct complete supply chains - one centred in China and another dispersed throughout the West.
I fully agree. China is still by far the largest importer of semiconductors, and it should leverage that. It should immediately try to get together with the chip manufacturers that lost to giants like TSMC. I'm sure there were many companies that tried and failed to join the semiconductor market. Especially in Europe and Japan. What happened to their engineers? They need to be brought together and coordinated, similar to how Huawei coordinates its foreign researchers.
Huawei also has a massive R&D department with top tier researchers from around the world. It should have more experience scouting and incentivising foreign scientists than most other chinese companies, who work mostly domestically and would struggle with the culture shock of working with foreigners.
Furthermore, before the ban comes into effect in August, it must also do its best to work together with the companies that currently provide its chips. Don't forget, they also want to sell chips to Huawei, and probably helped find loopholes in the old ban. They may be able to help again.
Lastly, this is a bit off topic, I feel like China should play nice with the EU. If China wants to develop its own chips in a reasonable amount of time, they will need ASML. So don't piss off the EU and the Dutch.
Btw, I just found this. Anyone know more about it?
I totally agree. China needs to be strategic. The EU is biased against China but they hate trump admin a lot as well. China needs to be very cordial to EU, especially after this coronovirus pandemic when the US showed it's true colors. and who knows, maybe the EU is strong enough to go against US hegemony.
Sounds great but building it by researchers and putting it into use can have a substantial delay, if it ever happens as all.
What swift SMEE and SMIC improvement you talking about?
How do you know Hisilicon can and cannnot do?
Its logic chip design not particular semiconductor manufacturing. Why are you assuming things?
Like i said huawei prepared well on logic chip design but not on OS and chip manufacturing.
There are public knowledge on. for example, waste treatment. does it means huawei have people know
that field?
- Status