Only " Tibet Water to Xinjiang Project" can save China from severe economic&social unrest

[tidalwave]

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Alot of water got wasted downstream. If China fears of conflict it will relinquish southern Tibet and Taiwan. It jut needs to do what it got to do,

 

[PiSigma]

Good question! ...... Tibet is very high altitude and Taklamakan is low, so in theory mostly can be delivered with just gravitational force but in reality is engineering feat to do that.

Also "Tibet is the source of several of Asia’s great rivers, including the Yellow, Yangtze, Brahmaputra, Indus, and Ganges. The plateau, which has an average elevation of 4000 metres and is widely considered the world’s third pole due its vast glaciers and freshwater resources, plays a crucial role in regulating regional climate"

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Article quoting "free Tibet" and Australian Tibet society filled with people that have nothing to do with Tibet... If it screws them over, perfect, another bonus.

 

[Rettam Stacf]

China's coastal region is affluent enough to be able to afford the exploitation of water desalination, reclamation, and preservation technologies to become water self sufficient. This will free up the water from the Western plateau to be used for development in the west, agriculture in the Central Plains and fracking for oil and gas in the Szechuan Basin. US Energy Information Administration estimated China to have the largest proven reserve of recoverable shale gas in the world.

China's domestic food production still has some upside as it has not yet achieved the efficiency level of North American and Australian agricultural sector.

 

[PiSigma]

China's coastal region is affluent enough to be able to afford the exploitation of water desalination, reclamation, and preservation technologies to become water self sufficient. This will free up the water from the Western plateau to be used for development in the west, agriculture in the Central Plains and fracking for oil and gas in the Szechuan Basin. US Energy Information Administration estimated China to have the largest proven reserve of recoverable shale gas in the world.

China's domestic food production still has some upside as it has not yet achieved the efficiency level of North American and Australian agricultural sector.

Shale gas in Sichuan is a terrible idea, for gas production and water usage... There are plethora of reasons I won't go into.

But desalination of sea water for coastal usages is not economically feasible. It is extremely expensive and environmental damaging. The amount needed by even just the coastal provinces would require more energy than China is current producing with change. Also transporting it further inland would also be expensive. A single oil pipeline is in the order of billions, now water requirements are 100x more, so expect to cost even more (not linear of course).

 

[Rettam Stacf]

Shale gas in Sichuan is a terrible idea, for gas production and water usage... There are plethora of reasons I won't go into.

But desalination of sea water for coastal usages is not economically feasible. It is extremely expensive and environmental damaging. The amount needed by even just the coastal provinces would require more energy than China is current producing with change. Also transporting it further inland would also be expensive. A single oil pipeline is in the order of billions, now water requirements are 100x more, so expect to cost even more (not linear of course).

True, desalinated and reclaimed water is expensive and energy intensive. But Singapore did it. The coastal region of China is affluent enough to do the same. I did not say China has to do it for the entire country, just the coastal region.

If making the coastal region water independent enables China to be food independent and energy independent (or less dependent) while developing the economy in the West, and at the same time not antagonizing her neighbors in South and Southeast Asia, then it is worth it.

 

[PiSigma]

True, desalinated and reclaimed water is expensive and energy intensive. But Singapore did it. The coastal region of China is affluent enough to do the same. I did not say China has to do it for the entire country, just the coastal region.

If making the coastal region water independent enables China to be food independent and energy independent (or less dependent) while developing the economy in the West, and at the same time not antagonizing her neighbors in South and Southeast Asia, then it is worth it.

The provinces of Liaoning (45m) Hebei(75M), Shandong(100M), Jiangsu(80m) Zhejiang(60m), Fujian(40m), Guangdong(100m+), Guangxi and Hainan together represent close to 500m people.. Singapore is an small island city that if was in China would not even be in the top 10. Also the area of those provinces would be basically 2x or 3x of Japan. Industrial and agricultural water use if higher than personal use by order of 100x. Singapore have no agriculture....

China is poor! Per capital Singapore is richer than the richest Chinese province

This is asking why isn't California doing massive desalination when there were drought for the last 5 years.. and Cali is the richest state by far.. too damn expensive!

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

China is poor!

This forum really needs a laugh emoji, this is just too good.

This is asking why isn't California doing massive desalination when there were drought for the last 5 years.. and Cali is the richest state by far

California isn't doing anything because it's in America, and America doesn't do anything. The only thing America makes is Wall Street chicanery.

 

[PiSigma]

This forum really needs a laugh emoji, this is just too good.

California isn't doing anything because it's in America, and America doesn't do anything. The only thing America makes is Wall Street chicanery.

China really is poor. Do you know how much an desalination unit cost?

I literally just spec'ed one out last month, to make BFW... Not potable water, which means it'll be pretty cheap by comparison. For the filtration, RO, tankage, filters of a 120kbpd facility (~20k m3/d) it is about $90M. Opex for those are $15M a year. Now compare that to the cost of water for any Chinese city....

If you charge for that water, industry crashes due to high expenditure for utilities.

The energy requirements of such a facility is also in the several MW.. essentially for every 3 or 4 of these you build, expect to add a nuke power plant to go with it.

Then there is the waste... Where do you put the brine? Not enough salt caves or deep aquifers. Dump back into ocean? Then it's a pollutant and kills fish and destroys the local ecosystem. The acids used, where to send all that?

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

China really is poor.

There is no interpretation in which this statement is correct. Even at the per capita GDP level China is middle income. At the aggregate level the Chinese state has access to mindbogglingly vast resources.

I literally just spec'ed one out last month

You spec'ed one out in Canada or wherever you live, where a "worker" needs $100,000 just to scratch his butt - so your numbers have no bearing on what it would cost in China.

The energy requirements of such a facility is also in the several MW.. essentially for every 3 or 4 of these you build, expect to add a nuke power plant to go with it.

China's energy consumption naturally doubles every 10-15 years. The energy would come from where it usually comes from - in the short term coal (unfortunately), over the longer term renewables and advanced nuclear power. A small fleet of molten salt reactors could desalinate vast quantities of water using their waste heat.

Then there is the waste... Where do you put the brine? Not enough salt caves or deep aquifers. Dump back into ocean? Then it's a pollutant and kills fish and destroys the local ecosystem. The acids used, where to send all that?

Brine mining. There's uranium, lithium, magnesium and other valuable minerals in brine, that should generate more than enough income to fund safe disposal of the tailing.

 

[AndrewS]

China's coastal region is affluent enough to be able to afford the exploitation of water desalination, reclamation, and preservation technologies to become water self sufficient. This will free up the water from the Western plateau to be used for development in the west, agriculture in the Central Plains and fracking for oil and gas in the Szechuan Basin. US Energy Information Administration estimated China to have the largest proven reserve of recoverable shale gas in the world.

China's domestic food production still has some upside as it has not yet achieved the efficiency level of North American and Australian agricultural sector.

Using scarce or expensive water for low-value Agriculture is a big waste.