Only " Tibet Water to Xinjiang Project" can save China from severe economic&social unrest


AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
Yes, and perhaps made country located in a desert to be self sufficient of water and agricultural products. Anyway we can simplify to the fact of 2 billion people have not access to clean water. So the cost should not be considered as a logistic cost. Its a matter of health somehow. Finding the most efficient way to do that, has to be the matter of consideration

I'm saying that even with all the non-financial benefits, it likely doesn't work.

For just 4million people, the cost of the Libyan water project is in excess of $25 Billion.
That compares with Libya's GDP which is only $40-50 Billion.
So the water project cost half of Libya's annual GDP.

When you consider that the average Libyan is still really poor, that $25 Billion spent on the water project is a colossal waste of money. They could have spent it on much more worthwhile projects in education, healthcare, transport, industry, etc etc.

In fact, did this colossal waste of money contribute to the revolution in Libya?
 

AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
I'm not pitching desalination for agriculture. I'm saying how unfeasible it is due to high cost. It is zeea5kpul that was saying all water usage for coastal provinces should be from desalinated sea water. All my posts are proving his idea as unfeasible from an economic point of view.

And sea water can't be used for agriculture... Because salt.

If we have a cost of $0.3 per m3 for seawater desalination , it is feasible for coastal cities to run on this. As stated earlier, 150litres per year for a city dweller works out as $16 per person per year.

You don't use desalination plants for agriculture.
For example, 1kg of wheat uses 1500 litres of water, which works out to $450 just for the water.
 

AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
If we're looking at food self-sufficiency, then promoting potato consumption is a good option for China.

Potatoes can also grow in colder climates in the North and in marginal soils like in hills/mountains.
Potatoes also use far less water than rice or wheat. See below.

Rice 2,497 litres
Pasta (wheat) 1,849 litres
Bread (wheat) 1,608 litres
Pizza (wheat) 1,239 litres
Potatoes 287 litres
 

2handedswordsman

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm saying that even with all the non-financial benefits, it likely doesn't work.

For just 4million people, the cost of the Libyan water project is in excess of $25 Billion.
That compares with Libya's GDP which is only $40-50 Billion.
So the water project cost half of Libya's annual GDP.

When you consider that the average Libyan is still really poor, that $25 Billion spent on the water project is a colossal waste of money. They could have spent it on much more worthwhile projects in education, healthcare, transport, industry, etc etc.

In fact, did this colossal waste of money contribute to the revolution in Libya?

25 billion was the yearly running cost? Are you talking about Libyan GDP after 10 year of turmoil and civil wars? After these questions, is preferable and more cost efficient to import ( if there's not any international sanctions ) water and agricultural products? As far as i know
Ghaddafi's regime held a massive effort to provide food, water, housing , education , energy , and health coverage to all it's people. The so called revolution, IMHO was another coup d'etat , carried out by the well known wolfpack ( call me NATO and allies ), driven by their thirst to control petroleum production and distribution. Another hid , Libya before the orange revolution was in effort to build a panafrican currency based on the golden rule trying to stop the dependance on petrodollar. I'm not trying to portrait Ghaddafi's governance as a living paradise, but the facts are that 10 years after his death the country is still under turmoil, literally in chaos in which ISIS style extremism found shelter , room to expand and impose its darkness.
 

AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
25 billion was the yearly running cost? Are you talking about Libyan GDP after 10 year of turmoil and civil wars? After these questions, is preferable and more cost efficient to import ( if there's not any international sanctions ) water and agricultural products? As far as i know
Ghaddafi's regime held a massive effort to provide food, water, housing , education , energy , and health coverage to all it's people. The so called revolution, IMHO was another coup d'etat , carried out by the well known wolfpack ( call me NATO and allies ), driven by their thirst to control petroleum production and distribution. Another hid , Libya before the orange revolution was in effort to build a panafrican currency based on the golden rule trying to stop the dependance on petrodollar. I'm not trying to portrait Ghaddafi's governance as a living paradise, but the facts are that 10 years after his death the country is still under turmoil, literally in chaos in which ISIS style extremism found shelter , room to expand and impose its darkness.

I'm looking at the situation **prior** to the Libyan civil war and revolution.

No matter how you look at it, the $25+ Billion in building the the Libyan water project was a huge amount of money for Libya.

In 2010, Libya was comparable to Saudi Arabia or Norway in terms of oil revenue per person.
But 40% of the Libyan population was in poverty and angry.

If Libya had used that $25+ Billion in building an economy around industry and services, there likely would have been a large, urban educated Libyan middle-class rather than millions of farmers and workers on the poverty line.

Instead, Libya wasted that money on water for low-value agriculture.

Here is the view from 2010.
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think overall AndrewS like to stealthly mislead people so China would Not be infringing on certain groups of people. From technology discussion I already got that sense by his subtle try of protecting the multinational companies inside China. Also now, want China stay away from potential hot spots. Nice try though, I can smell that a mile away...I have a instinct for that kind of things.
 

AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
I think overall AndrewS like to stealthly mislead people so China would Not be infringing on certain groups of people. From technology discussion I already got that sense by his subtle try of protecting the multinational companies inside China. Also now, want China stay away from potential hot spots. Nice try though, I can smell that a mile away...I have a instinct for that kind of things.

I think your instincts are wrong.

My view is the practical one regarding foreign technology and multinationals.

And remember it is in China's long term interest for a liberal trade and investment order to continue around the world. Whilst that is not entirely in China's control, China can affect this.

Plus you haven't actually addressed the cost-benefit analyses that I've posted.

If you can debunk my numbers or analyses, then fair enough, I'll revise my conclusions.

If not, you need to rethink your own conclusions.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
If we're looking at food self-sufficiency, then promoting potato consumption is a good option for China.

Potatoes can also grow in colder climates in the North and in marginal soils like in hills/mountains.
Potatoes also use far less water than rice or wheat. See below.

Rice 2,497 litres
Pasta (wheat) 1,849 litres
Bread (wheat) 1,608 litres
Pizza (wheat) 1,239 litres
Potatoes 287 litres

yeahh, just need to change the mindset. Potatoes is not the main staple for Chinese in general .... but it could change

I agree that potatoes is amazing plant, should be promoted
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think whole grains are more gut friendly, thereby more healthier by extension.

As technology progresses, there should be more use of hydroponics and aeroponics for commercial agriculture. More efficient use of less water yet production can go on year round, if technology is available and advanced enough.
 

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