Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

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hydrogenpi

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Absolutely right. If all it costs China to completely destroy what America has built for itself after WWII is a trillion dollars (even less, since there are many more US assets in China that can be seized as compensation than there are Chinese assets in the US) then it's a great bargain.

So here is my take on why US may have wanted to shape the narrative that this virus not only originated from Wuhan but in addition that there was on top of that a willful coverup by the Chinese government. It also squares with Tom Cotton spinning conspiracy theories from the very beginning and Trump and Pompeo insistence at the G7 that the world adopt the "Wuhan virus" labeling...

It is an attempt to assign "blame" of this outbreak to China, ideally with China accepting the fault/blame but at least getting enough worldwide nations to agree with the consensus that this was entirely or predominant the 'fault' of the Chinese.

So if it was just that the virus originated in China then the level of blame would be limited, but if it could be shown, or if the narrative could be spun and the consensus could be reached, that on top of the virus originating in China the Chinese government also did some sort of coverup after finding out about this new virus etc then that makes it categorically different and paves the way for potentially assigning of "blame"/"guilt" and thus allowing the extraction of penalties, making China pay for it, reparations, and things of that nature.

This is why there was so much push about the whole "China lied, people died" and the "Chinese doctor whistleblower coverup allowed the virus to get out of control" narratives. Given what we now know about COVID, even if the doctor's message was amplified by the CCP it was likely already too late at that point, the virus was already out, they might have slowed it down in Wuhan, but it would have went international anyway, so functionally wouldn't in the end have made a difference and we would still end up where were are today, just the timeline may be pushed out by some weeks at the most.

But back to the whole T-Bill thing and how this is all interrelated... T-Bill is backed by nothing but trust of the US government. It is like a social network, or social contract, that just like any other fiat currency it goes by the "network effect" and is largely a consensus based "web of trust" sort of thing... essentially it has value if enough parties believe it has value...

So ordinarily without an event like COVID if USA just up and says hey China we are freezing your T-Bills then yes the value and trust of the US government printing machine would shatter. But, in an extraordinary circumstance like this pandemic, if the US can manage to shape enough public and national opinions worldwide to get a large consensus that China is somehow to "blame" for this outbreak and that China should "pay", and if most of the important players in the world actually got on board with such a consensus, then the US may actually get away with something like this with impunity, in that it could invalidate what it owes to China and there would not in fact be any negative impact to its dollar status...

Hence why I believe they made it such a point of contention to get the G7 to officially recognize this as the "Wuhan virus", to cement that step towards attribution, fault finding, and being able to apply such international consensus to pave the way for exactly what they are now discussing in the US senate to force China to pay by wiping out the debt US owed to China.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
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Freezing China US Treasury bill is just a technicality whereas US government won't do it because its credibility would be shot is just an assumption and personal opinion.

The two can't be compared at all.

During the struggle against US,Russia already liquidated all its US Treasury bills

But Chinese still clinging to the hope of win-win situation, still hoping to work US, that's why still large US T bills. Can't have the middle way, that may work in Asia but not with US, got to make up its mind. No wishy washy ..
 
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hydrogenpi

Junior Member
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Anonymous Bonds were not issued by the federal treasury past 1982, and to my knowledge, all anonymous bonds issued by the US treasury have matured. Private companies can issue bearer bonds to other countries, but the federal reserve is not a private company, and even they were limited further in 2010 and 2012. China's acquisition of US debt is not anonymous. In fact, it came up as a big issue in 2011 when China was caught buying more debt than disclosed. China's acquisition and holding of US debt is easily trackable
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Freezing China US Treasury bill is just a technicality whereas US government won't do it because its credibility would be shot is just an assumption and personal opinion.

The two can't be compared at all.

During the struggle against US,Russia already liquidated all its US Treasury bills

But Chinese still clinging to the hope of win-win situation, still hoping to work US, that's why still large US T bills. Can't have the middle way, that may work in Asia but not with US, got to make up its mind. No wishy washy ..

But if/when the Chinese economy does grow to 2x and then 3x larger than the USA - then the USA has no choice but to accept the situation and work with China.

Hence it's too early to close the door, as time will change the position of the USA
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
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But if/when the Chinese economy does grow to 2x and then 3x larger than the USA - then the USA has no choice but to accept the situation and work with China.

Hence it's too early to close the door, as time will change the position of the USA

That's the future. Making China pay for virus and Killing Huawei now are the agenda.
 
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tidalwave

Senior Member
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How did this thread go from ASML and China lithography to Chinese owned US bond freeze and COVID compensation?
No surprise there, the same group of people in US government calling for China pay for virus also wants Huawei to be killed.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
That's the future. Making China pay for virus and Killing Huawei now are the agenda.

A lot of that anger is because of the current situation.

It will be very difficult to sustain that anger over the next 6+ months.

In summary, we saw denial first, which is the 1st stage of the grief process. The next step is anger, but that anger is directly counterproductive with the next stage which is bargaining. The only bargaining around is with China for medical supplies. And potentially a vaccine.

The process ends with acceptance.

Which is why I think China shouldn't close the door to the US.
 

navip635

New Member
Registered Member

Don't really want to post it here, it will be my last.

Intelligence report submitted to White House
Bloomberg cites three US officials who have seen the classified report. It says that China's reporting on the scale of the virus was intentionally incomplete and concludes the numbers were fake.

The huge numbers of urns in pictures last weeks and long lines of people waiting to collect remains led just about everyone to conclude the same thing last week:
China

We were
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in early February on the strong evidence that crematoriums in Wuhan were running flat-out.

The issue is that many other countries relied in Chinese data to make determinations about how to handle the virus. The numbers were also used in models predicting the spread.

That said, everyone has known for 20 years that you can't trust Chinese data so people and governments who were trusting the data really only have themselves to blame.

More important than this
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is news today that China locked down an area of 600,000 people on signs of a new outbreak.

We are on the same page but read the word "intentionally" they are pushing for certain nefarious narrative aided by their vassals, ultimately to label PRC as a pariah state and demand seek compensation, reparation.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
Don't really want to post it here, it will be my last.

Intelligence report submitted to White House
Bloomberg cites three US officials who have seen the classified report. It says that China's reporting on the scale of the virus was intentionally incomplete and concludes the numbers were fake.

The huge numbers of urns in pictures last weeks and long lines of people waiting to collect remains led just about everyone to conclude the same thing last week:
China

We were
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in early February on the strong evidence that crematoriums in Wuhan were running flat-out.

The issue is that many other countries relied in Chinese data to make determinations about how to handle the virus. The numbers were also used in models predicting the spread.

That said, everyone has known for 20 years that you can't trust Chinese data so people and governments who were trusting the data really only have themselves to blame.

More important than this
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
is news today that China locked down an area of 600,000 people on signs of a new outbreak.

We are on the same page but read the word "intentionally" they are pushing for certain nefarious narrative aided by their vassals, ultimately to label PRC as a pariah state and demand seek compensation, reparation.
Could someone delete this post? We already discussed this one to death in the coronavirus thread and proved it is fake news.
 
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