i'm sure china has microprocessor, whether is good as latest intel/amd or not is debatable, the whole point is china is lagging in several area of semiconductor right now. hence the need of talents Unless china has CPU that have the same performance as latest intel/amd cpu, then there is no point to argue. when lenovo start using chinese made CPU in its laptop/pc over intel/amd, then we can have discussion about how good china microproessor is.
A reappraisal of China's semiconductor strategy
- Thread starter ZeEa5KPul
- Start date
- Status
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
First of all, I have already already stated that no group of people can be lumped in as all loyal. That said, sea turtles have far more reason to be loyal than a total foreigner by blood. The latter has no reason to be loyal to China at all; they have less than no reason, they have negative reason to be loyal to China when their nation is in competition. Many sea turtles who come back know they are Chinese and are there to lift China above all other nations racist against the Chinese. There is at least reason for some sea turtles to be loyal while none exists for the true foreigner.
Secondly, being loyal to a country because you love it, want to see it grow, and know that it represents you is a different kind of loyalty than the kind that can be bought by money and better lifestyle. The former, you love your country; the latter, you love having fun. The former is real and in your heart, unchangeable by money. When people are loyal to a country because they love their motherland, they are willing to sacrifice for the good of the nation and choose their actions based on what is good for the country. When people are "loyal" to a country because it's fun to live there, it's flitting, can be purchased, and they would never sacrifice for this society but rather think what they can do to take as much from this society as possible while offering back as little as needed.
Last edited:
as i mention in previous post, there is a big difference between fresh out of school vs someone spend years working at intel/amd/nvidia/xilinx etc etc. Huawei is in the top list, but not all chinese company are in the top list. but there are tons company in US consider as at the fore front of R&D/engineering. China need more than just one huawei, it need dozens/hundred company like that.
i dont get it where did you get the idea sea turtle are more loyal? my dad is consider sea turtle, he doesn't like china,, many his friend are from china, they dont want go back either. i talk to so many chinese student at school during my college years, most want to find job in US, most stay in US if they can. i mean goto silicon valley, there are full of chinese immigrants, goto san fran, while they visit china quite a bit, but very few decide to go back permanently(especially if they have good jobs). again its not about loyalty its about how strong tie they have in that country(family, kids etc etc). people want to stay where they feel comfortable, doesn't matter sea turtle or foreigner. there are american stay in china after korean war or early 70s/80s, i would say they are more loyal to china then chinese live in US, and they stay because they like there. intel/amd certainly dont judge if they are native or not, all they care is if they have the skill to finish the project. there are many indian/other foreign engineer in US, it would be foolish not consider them just because they are not sea turtle.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Yeah which rock have you been hiding all this time Taihu supercomputer is one of the fastest computer in the world and THEY DON'T USE INTEL MICROPROCESSOR THYE USE DOMESTIC MICROPROCESSOR
the problem with you is you are so much brainwashed by MSM that you don't even know what you are talking
The Sunway TaihuLight (: 神威·太湖之光, Shénwēi·tàihú zhī guāng) is a Chinese which, as of November 2018, is ranked third in the list, with a rating of 93 . The name is translated as divine power, the light of Taihu Lake. This is nearly three times as fast as the previous , which ran at 34 petaflops. As of June 2017, it is ranked as the 16th most energy-efficient supercomputer in the , with an efficiency of 6.051 . It was designed by the (NRCPC) and is located at the in the city of , in province, China.
The Sunway TaihuLight was the world's fastest supercomputer for two years, from June 2016 to June 2018, according to the TOP500 lists. The record was surpassed in June 2018 by IBM's .
Architecture[]
The Sunway TaihuLight uses a total of 40,960 Chinese-designed 64-bit based on the . Each processor chip contains 256 processing cores, and an additional four auxiliary cores for system management (also RISC cores, just more fully featured) for a total of 10,649,600 CPU cores across the entire system.
The processing cores feature 64 KB of for data (and 16 KB for instructions) and communicate via a , instead of having a traditional .
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Well your dad and friends aren't sea turtles, are they? They're a bunch of selfish pricks. Sea turtles are Chinese who have decided to go back home.
I don't get why it's so hard for you to understand that a person of X ethnicity has a greater chance to be loyal to country X than a person of Y ethnicity. Does that make it clearer for you? No?
Then list some reasons that a Sea turtle would have to be loyal to China. I'll do it for you: because when China shines, all Chinese people shine; because this is truly bringing honor to the family; because this is showing all those racist schmucks that China can out-innovate them all. Now list all the reasons a completely foreigner has to be loyal to China, and I mean loyal, as in, a desire to see China rise above all other nations including their own. Go ahead, list 'em.
An American who stays in China after the Korean war is loyal to China? Are we having this problem because you don't understand what loyalty means? Do you have loyalty confused with enjoying a place?? If another conflict broke out between China and the USA, which country would these Americans want to see victorious? I have never met a Chinese person in the US who would hope that China would lose in a conflict against the US (well, there was one Falun fool but I stopped speaking to him the second I found that out). They might enjoy living in America but their loyalty is to China. They simply lack either the courage, ability or both, to go back and contribute to China. An American might enjoy living in China, but his loyalty is to the US. Get the definition of loyalty straight, and don't mix it up with the words, courage, ability, or enjoyment.
Intel and AMD can't judge on ethnicity because one, that's illegal, and two, then they'd have no talent to pick from. If an Indian or foreign engineer wanted to work for China, we should not outright reject him, but he must not be in a position of power and he must be supervised, otherwise you shouldn't be surprised if he either transfers data back to his home country or sells Chinese data to those willing to pay. Foreigners can have their use; I never said to reject all of them, but there are significant trust issues that need to be mitigated.
The point is, the talent recruitment drive should mainly target ethnic Chinese because of all the races in the world, the Chinese have the greatest reason to be loyal to China. It's not a rocket science revelation level statement. The only way you could disagree is if you were to argue that every ethnicity in the world has an equal chance of being loyal to China.
Last edited:
wtf is selfish prick when someone decide to stay in US, and make a life for themself and their family, you think every chinese prefer china over their family and themself. tell me if chinese are so loyal why haven't we seen bunch chinese move out of canada/US/aussies and back to China. many people in china , they want to move to US/canada etc if given the chance, and it has nothing to do with loyalty. whatever their feeling they have for china, it doesn't surpass their responsibility for their family and their wish for better life/opportunity. if they can give their kids/family better living standard at different place, they will move there if possible. how many rich chinese have house/citizenship in US/canada or elsewhere.
if china only get sea turtle as talent, then china are already at a disadvantage compare to US. if you isolate talent due they are not born there, they will just move out. Even trump, want to change US immigration to favor those who has talents, and It doesn't matter those talent from china/india or elsewhere. Sea turtle are there to make living or they are their due to better opportunity, if other place offer better living standard they will move. The reason there are more sea turtle these day since 80/90s, is because china living standard raise, and has more opportunity.
chinese person in US are not against china, but they consider their own quality of life and their family a priority over living in china. there are plenty chinese in US/canada wish china prosperity, but they also want to have best quality of life for them self and their family. are you live in N.america? if so why dont you become sea turtle. your problem is you are so stuck on where the person born, if china only consider this, then china is already at disadvantage.
Last edited:
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Well, you clearly can't read, among lots more problems.
First of all, I never said all Chinese people prefer China over their family and themselves; I said that there is a greater chance that an ethnic Chinese person would devote himself to building China than someone who was not ethnic Chinese.
Secondly, just like you were showing that you don't understand what loyalty means, you are now showing that you don't know what selfish means. To put your desires above serving your country is selfish. But that's ok. Most people in the world are selfish; I understand that.
I have previously outlined the advantages and disadvantages of searching for talent worldwide vs among Sea turtles. Go back here: https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/a-...iconductor-strategy.t8511/page-25#post-559072
I never said Sea turtles will work for free or without consideration to compensation. The more a person can contribute, the more China rewards him, with money, status, power. The US tends to start higher for a person of average capability and then build slower. The Chinese start much lower for someone who is not obviously very useful but pile on heavily and quickly surpasses what the US offers to a person who is extremely useful.
And I never said that no foreigners will be accepted, just that there are risks to be mitigated by certain controls and from a risk level assessment, it is better and likely easier to recruit a Sea turtle than a foreigner.
I have yet to complete my studies in medical genetics. Afterwards, I'm going back to China, and I'm throwing away a six figure USD starting salary for a genetics director job in the US for what is likely to be a starting salary of just 20,000 yuan a month salary to go, all because I would rather serve Chinese patients than American ones. Believe me when I say I'm not a hypocrite in what I ask of others.
The problem is very clear. The only reason this conversation can still be going on is that you don't understand that the likelihood of a Chinese person being loyal to China is far greater than the likelihood of a non-Chinese person being loyal to China so the recruitment drive should focus on recovering Chinese talent that can be loyal and long-lasting rather than a foreigner whose relationship with China is much more likely to be short and completely compensation-based. You continue to interpret this statement to mean that all Chinese people are expected to throw away their establishments and move back to China for peanuts. It's your English reading capability that's causing this loop we're in.
I've addressed all your points but you have missed all of mine. The best way for you to continue would be to reread all my posts to you and address them point-by-point if you can.
Last edited:
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Via Broadsword
A Manhattan project on China's chip industry need not cost trillions, but billions. Get the 14nm, and the domestic developed 10nm technology up and running.
------------------------------------------------------
It's time China became self-reliant in chips
By Liu Jianna | China Daily | Updated: 2019-06-12 07:09
Song Chen/China Daily
Editor's Note: The United States' ban on Chinese telecommunications equipment maker ZTE last year and global 5G leader Huawei in May this year have exposed Chinese enterprises' dependency on US high-tech exports, especially chips which are used in nearly all digital products. How can China develop its chip industry and become self-sufficient in the sector? Three experts share their views on the issue with China Daily's Liu Jianna. Excerpts follow:
China can become self-sufficient in chips
There is a wide gap between the Chinese mainland and developed economies such as the US, the Republic of Korea and Taiwan in terms of the chip industry. However, the mainland has taken big strides in charting its own course, which is evident in its chip industry's growth from 54.5 billion yuan ($7.9 billion) in 2004 to 653.2 billion yuan in 2018, and the recent development of 3 nanometer transistors, a technical benchmark of the industry, by a research team of Chinese Academy of Sciences.
Still, China lags behind in the processing and manufacturing of chips, as well as chip design and packaging. Hence, China should take more targeted measures to develop its chip industry.
China can meet 85 percent of its domestic demand if the chip industry fully applies the 14-nanometer transistor technology. In fact, this could become a reality in three to four years. To be on the safer side, China can certainly become self-sufficient in chips by 2025.
Faced with the US' technology blockade, China should make a determined effort to perform a new miracle in its chip industry, similar to developing atomic and hydrogen bombs and man-made satellite in the 1960s and 1970s.
To achieve that, however, the government should offer incentives to State-owned as well as privately owned enterprises to manufacture high-quality chips. The recent measure of exempting integrated circuit-making enterprises from paying corporate income tax for two years is a good move in this direction.
Qu Xianming, former deputy head of China Academy of Machinery Science and Technology Group Co., Ltd
Turning a crisis into opportunity
In the lead-up to the US' ban on ZTE and Huawei neither suppliers nor buyers of chips thought that a US-created twister would devastate the chip market, because the chip industry was one of the best examples of marketization and globalization. Apart from impeding China's technological ascent in the global supply chain, the US' wayward moves will also cause serious damage to American chip makers, as proven by the stock slump of US chip giants Intel and Qualcomm following the bans on ZTE and Huawei.
Yet there is a silver lining for China, because the US' trade war and technology blockade will help remove the domestic objections and impediments to the development of the chip industry. The story of China's liquid crystal display (LCD) industry could be repeated in the chip industry this time: China has made concerted efforts and secured more than 60 percent of the LCD market after global LCD companies cut supplies to China about a decade ago.
Hopefully, China will succeed in turning the chip crisis into a rare opportunity and develop its chip industry despite severe economic challenges.
Mei Xinyu, a researcher at the International Trade and Economic Cooperation Institute of the Ministry of Commerce
Talents key to success of the chip industry
Statistics show China accounted for more than 50 percent of the global demand for chips last year, importing about 90 percent of those chips at the cost of more than $300 billion, which was more than what it paid for its oil imports. As for chips made by domestic companies, they met only about 8 percent of China's demand. Given the importance of chips in the digital era and their role in next-generation technologies such as 5G, immediate actions should be taken to safeguard China's chip security.
Nevertheless, there should not be a mad rush across the country to develop chips, especially because the global chip industry is highly monopolized and huge investments are needed for a company to succeed in the chip-making sector.
China has about 1,700 semiconductor enterprises, which should be encouraged to pool their resources and technologies and consolidate their business operations through mergers and acquisitions so they can achieve breakthroughs in core technologies.
Besides, China should offer more incentives and build a friendlier environment to attract talents from across the world to its chip industry. It is indeed alarming that China is projected to face a shortage of 300,000 professionals in the chip industry by 2020. As Ren Zhengfei, founder and CEO of Huawei, said: "We have adopted a money-pumping approach in the past to develop the electronic industry. However, it takes more than money to develop chips. We should try our best to win over mathematicians and physicists."
Chen Fengying, a senior researcher in world economy at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations
A Manhattan project on China's chip industry need not cost trillions, but billions. Get the 14nm, and the domestic developed 10nm technology up and running.
------------------------------------------------------
It's time China became self-reliant in chips
By Liu Jianna | China Daily | Updated: 2019-06-12 07:09
Song Chen/China Daily
Editor's Note: The United States' ban on Chinese telecommunications equipment maker ZTE last year and global 5G leader Huawei in May this year have exposed Chinese enterprises' dependency on US high-tech exports, especially chips which are used in nearly all digital products. How can China develop its chip industry and become self-sufficient in the sector? Three experts share their views on the issue with China Daily's Liu Jianna. Excerpts follow:
China can become self-sufficient in chips
There is a wide gap between the Chinese mainland and developed economies such as the US, the Republic of Korea and Taiwan in terms of the chip industry. However, the mainland has taken big strides in charting its own course, which is evident in its chip industry's growth from 54.5 billion yuan ($7.9 billion) in 2004 to 653.2 billion yuan in 2018, and the recent development of 3 nanometer transistors, a technical benchmark of the industry, by a research team of Chinese Academy of Sciences.
Still, China lags behind in the processing and manufacturing of chips, as well as chip design and packaging. Hence, China should take more targeted measures to develop its chip industry.
China can meet 85 percent of its domestic demand if the chip industry fully applies the 14-nanometer transistor technology. In fact, this could become a reality in three to four years. To be on the safer side, China can certainly become self-sufficient in chips by 2025.
Faced with the US' technology blockade, China should make a determined effort to perform a new miracle in its chip industry, similar to developing atomic and hydrogen bombs and man-made satellite in the 1960s and 1970s.
To achieve that, however, the government should offer incentives to State-owned as well as privately owned enterprises to manufacture high-quality chips. The recent measure of exempting integrated circuit-making enterprises from paying corporate income tax for two years is a good move in this direction.
Qu Xianming, former deputy head of China Academy of Machinery Science and Technology Group Co., Ltd
Turning a crisis into opportunity
In the lead-up to the US' ban on ZTE and Huawei neither suppliers nor buyers of chips thought that a US-created twister would devastate the chip market, because the chip industry was one of the best examples of marketization and globalization. Apart from impeding China's technological ascent in the global supply chain, the US' wayward moves will also cause serious damage to American chip makers, as proven by the stock slump of US chip giants Intel and Qualcomm following the bans on ZTE and Huawei.
Yet there is a silver lining for China, because the US' trade war and technology blockade will help remove the domestic objections and impediments to the development of the chip industry. The story of China's liquid crystal display (LCD) industry could be repeated in the chip industry this time: China has made concerted efforts and secured more than 60 percent of the LCD market after global LCD companies cut supplies to China about a decade ago.
Hopefully, China will succeed in turning the chip crisis into a rare opportunity and develop its chip industry despite severe economic challenges.
Mei Xinyu, a researcher at the International Trade and Economic Cooperation Institute of the Ministry of Commerce
Talents key to success of the chip industry
Statistics show China accounted for more than 50 percent of the global demand for chips last year, importing about 90 percent of those chips at the cost of more than $300 billion, which was more than what it paid for its oil imports. As for chips made by domestic companies, they met only about 8 percent of China's demand. Given the importance of chips in the digital era and their role in next-generation technologies such as 5G, immediate actions should be taken to safeguard China's chip security.
Nevertheless, there should not be a mad rush across the country to develop chips, especially because the global chip industry is highly monopolized and huge investments are needed for a company to succeed in the chip-making sector.
China has about 1,700 semiconductor enterprises, which should be encouraged to pool their resources and technologies and consolidate their business operations through mergers and acquisitions so they can achieve breakthroughs in core technologies.
Besides, China should offer more incentives and build a friendlier environment to attract talents from across the world to its chip industry. It is indeed alarming that China is projected to face a shortage of 300,000 professionals in the chip industry by 2020. As Ren Zhengfei, founder and CEO of Huawei, said: "We have adopted a money-pumping approach in the past to develop the electronic industry. However, it takes more than money to develop chips. We should try our best to win over mathematicians and physicists."
Chen Fengying, a senior researcher in world economy at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations
Good man. You made the right choice. This reminds of one of a quote during America's McCarthyism, which has eerie parallels to today extreme Sinophobia.
"I'm Chinese. I don't want to build weapons to kill my countrymen. It's that simple."
- Qian Xuesen
- Status