A reappraisal of China's semiconductor strategy

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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
s002wjh said:
sry i'm bit suspicious about your claim giving up 6 figure USD salary director job for 20k yuan in beijing, right after our previous conversation. People who give up like what you describe, are rare. Also are you in undergrad or grad school, company in US dont just hire someone fresh out of school to be a director. The director require years if not decades of experience in the field. anyway, how about we continue this after you go back to beijing like you claimed, cause right now its obvious you are in US. i have seen too many talk the talk not the walk the walk. there are only 65k H1B for all foreigner, chinese student alone are 400k in US, not including others from india etc and other non-students foreigner. the H1B vacancy filled up in 48hrs. those dont find job here, have to leave within certain period of time.

as far as foreigner vs sea turtle talent. intel/amd/ti/ etc etc certainly willing to hire chinese/indian/others base on their skills, not nationality. It only become an issue if the area of study is sensitive. China hire tons former soviet engineer/scientist, some are in sensitive area. it doesn't seem an issue to them.

also i already said if they move to china is because they found better opportunity or has significant other or some other reason, i never say they move their for peanuts, get your fact straight.
the likelihood of ethnic chinese vs foreigner is case by case base, you can't just say which one is more trustworthy base on where they born. there are many factors, where they currently live, their citizenship, their family location etc etc. If both case are identical, then yes the native born has the advantage, but not before some background check to establish that facts. every organization has its own process to establish the trustiness of particular individual, been born in the native country is a small part of overall. for most commercial company its not a big deal where they from.
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there's a thing I wanted to know but was afraid to ask LOL which is if the guy who's coming back has to join the Party? (or at least apply for a membership or something)

anyway I would've thought to become a member should've been the only way how to get anywhere with a career, no?
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
s002wjh said:
sry i'm bit suspicious about your claim giving up 6 figure USD salary director job for 20k yuan in beijing, right after our previous conversation. People who give up like what you describe, are rare. Also are you in undergrad or grad school, company in US dont just hire someone fresh out of school to be a director. The director require years if not decades of experience in the field. anyway, how about we continue this after you go back to beijing like you claimed, cause right now its obvious you are in US. i have seen too many talk the talk not the walk the walk. there are only 65k H1B for all foreigner, chinese student alone are 400k in US, not including others from india etc and other non-students foreigner. the H1B vacancy filled up in 48hrs. those dont find job here, have to leave within certain period of time.
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Haha Undergrad? The training program requires a post-doc just to apply, usually a post doc with several years in clinical genetics. We have senior trainees with an Assistant professor rank in genetics. The average age of graduation is late 40's; I am not that. After the program, there is a board certification exam. Those who pass are hired as directors with the authority to perform a final sign out on patient cases.

When you don't understand anything, I recommend next time you ask politely rather than start with telling them that you don't believe them. But that's ok that you don't believe me. Lots of Americans choose not to believe China's GDP grows by 6%+; they resort to some Gordon Chang voodoo calculation to get 0.3% and the believe that instead. You are surrounded by people like your father so you have a hard time believing that there are people who are not like him.

But why ask me personal questions and then say you don't believe me? Why not stick to the general discussion topic?

s002wjh said:
as far as foreigner vs sea turtle talent. intel/amd/ti/ etc etc certainly willing to hire chinese/indian/others base on their skills, not nationality. It only become an issue if the area of study is sensitive. China hire tons former soviet engineer/scientist, some are in sensitive area.
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That's what I said; foreigners can be used but the risk must be mitigated. They cannot have access to highly sensitive information and they cannot rise in the ranks to be a controller of China's sectors. If they want to crunch numbers and ask no questions, that's ok.

s002wjh said:
also i already said if they move to china is because they found better opportunity or has significant other or some other reason, i never say they move their for peanuts, get your fact straight.
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No, you get your English straight. That's what you accused ME of saying when I said no such thing.

s002wjh said:
the likelihood of ethnic chinese vs foreigner is case by case base, you can't just say which one is more trustworthy base on where they born. there are many factors, where they currently live, their citizenship, their family location etc etc. If both case are identical, then yes the native born has the advantage, but not before some background check to establish that facts. every organization has its own process to establish the trustiness of particular individual, been born in the native country is a small factor part of overall. for most commercial company its not a big deal where they from.
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The bold part indicates that you do understand what I'm saying but the rest of the paragraph says you hate to admit being wrong. Of course everything case-by-case is best but it is not possible. There are Falun Gong who Chinese would actively seek to betray China while someone from Iran, Syria or Venezuela might be loyal to China because they see China as the only hope in the world to get revenge on the US for what it did to their country, but these are exceptions, not the general case. You cannot use exceptions to say that a general trend is untrue. And the general trend is irrefutably that those who are ethnically Chinese have a much greater chance to being truly loyal to China than any foreigner, who usually has none or negative. And before you start spouting off about those "other factors" that you mentioned, I'll remind you to check the definition of loyalty again. You can bride a non-loyal person to work for you and contribute to you, but someone else can bribe him to betray you. That is the difference; it is not that people without loyalty cannot be made to work, which is what you seem to think I said.

Reread https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/a-...iconductor-strategy.t8511/page-25#post-559072 and search for the words, "mass screen." I already said that ethnicity is only a rough mass screen for likelihood of loyalty, never a guarantee. And in bold, you just agreed, but only after walls of repetitive text.

Like I said in my past post, your reading is the biggest problem here. You don't understand what I'm saying most of the time and then I have to repeat it or you interpret it in some ridiculously incorrect way and I have to repeat it. It's basically me repeating myself and you ignoring most of my points, and now, you begrudgingly admitting that what I was saying was always correct in the least obvious way.
 
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s002wjh

Junior Member
Jura said:
there's a thing I wanted to know but was afraid to ask LOL which is if the guy who's coming back has to join the Party? (or at least apply for a membership or something)

anyway I would've thought to become a member should've been the only way how to get anywhere with a career, no?
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dont think people have to join party, there are plenty private firm in china that are looking for talents. i think become a member is for government position, maybe civic role etc. even then it might be optional.
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
s002wjh said:
i'm not too familiar with med. gene degree. i do know doctor take long time to graduate and get their residence. you never mention any detail, but just said, give up 6 figure director job line up for ya in US, and exchange for 20k yuan job in beijing, that just rare. but now it sound like you need pass exam / interview etc etc to have chance for the job, thats very different than a job already been offered, isn't it. either way how about once you decline the offer and are in beijing, then tell me, i told you so.
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Sure. You asked me a question, which you shouldn't have asked, and I answered in a way you didn't expect. You want me to answer again in the future? Why? Save face to look like you know me better than I know myself for now? LOL Don't worry, no problem. Next time, don't ask a question if you can't handle the answer.

s002wjh said:
i mention case by case, but you mention ethnic chinese are more trust then say foreign talent in some the earliest post. but seem like you agree now its case by case. yes you can interview each candidate if the position is sensitive, but for general commercial stuff, it doesn't matter. China need the talent where ever it can find.

dont blame my reading, from this post to your earliest post there are big difference. the earliest post you mention foreigner has to be supervised closely, can't be trusted etc. later you change to case by case.
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No, I blame your reading. Everybody blames your reading. You are the only one who thinks you read correctly. What earlier post?
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/a-...iconductor-strategy.t8511/page-25#post-559072
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/a-...iconductor-strategy.t8511/page-26#post-559090
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/a-...iconductor-strategy.t8511/page-26#post-559096

Cite where I said that all ethnic Chinese are more trustworthy than all foreigners. Cite it, I challenge you. I have always said that it is a "mass screen" or "general rule" or that "no group of people are all loyal or disloyal. In every one of my posts, I have emphasized that there are no absolutes. I have never changed that view; it is the same now as the beginning. And I still believe that foreigners should be limited in their access and supervised for the increased RISK (another word you need to understand: risk means chance, NOT that all foreigners will do XYZ); never have I said differently. Saying that case-by-case basis is the best is meaningless; in every situation in the world, case-by-case is the best. Even when you say men are generally taller than women, you can find cases that defy that. Even when you say that men have more facial hair than women, you can find cases that defy that. Even when you say that men (XY) have penises and women (XX) have vaginas, I can find you cases that defy that. Saying that it depends on case by case means absolutely NOTHING. The only change there is is in you, who, for the first time in your last post, admitted that all else equal, there is a greater likelihood of a Chinese person being loyal to China than a foreigner. This normally common sense statement took you this long to realize. Your reading comprehension was terrible, is still terrible, is further evidenced by your atrocious written grammar, and everybody except you sees that.

s002wjh said:
for example in your earliest post you mention in US people easily sell out info etc because they aren't born in US. any industrial espionage means at the minimum they get fired, worst in jailed. if they have family/house etc in US why would they risk everything for very little financial gain. high skill worker in US get good $$$, unless its in the millions, they have no interest selling company info. its self preservation. in other words, the stronger tie they have within US, the least likelihood they would do harm to US company. in industrial sensitive area, ppl get screened.
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Of course they wouldn't for very little financial gain. What about for huge financial gain? That's the whole point of being aligned with money; they can be bought with more money, not less. Millions of dollars can be paid to them by companies that wish to skip billions of dollars in research. A loyal person would hold that offer and call the FBI with no thought to the money offered. A person whose loyalty lies only to money would think about arranging the deal and taking the first flight out. That is the difference between loyalty to country and loyalty to self.

s002wjh said:
anyway let just say you have your opinion and i have mine, and be done with this. its off top anyway.
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No, the correct summary is that I have provided a common sense statement, that people of X ethnicity are more likely than any other ethnicity to be loyal to country X, supported by several other members, and you have your misconceptions based on your lack of ability to read and comprehend (and possibly also due to influence from your father). If it's off topic, then don't reply. Why would you write 10+ posts to me, then call off topic when you get repeatedly pinned?
 
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s002wjh

Junior Member
manqiangrexue said:
Sure. You asked me a question, which you shouldn't have asked, and I answered in a way you didn't expect. You want me to answer again in the future? Why? Save face to look like you know me better than I know myself for now? LOL Don't worry, no problem. Next time, don't ask a question if you can't handle the answer.


No, I blame your reading. Everybody blames your reading. You are the only one who thinks you read correctly. What earlier post?
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/a-...iconductor-strategy.t8511/page-25#post-559072
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/a-...iconductor-strategy.t8511/page-26#post-559090
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/a-...iconductor-strategy.t8511/page-26#post-559096

Cite where I said that all ethnic Chinese are more trustworthy than all foreigners. Cite it, I challenge you. I have always said that it is a "mass screen" or "general rule" or that "no group of people are all loyal or disloyal. In every one of my posts, I have emphasized that there are no absolutes. I have never changed that view; it is the same now as the beginning. And I still believe that foreigners should be limited in their access and supervised for the increased RISK (another word you need to understand: risk means chance, NOT that all foreigners will do XYZ); never have I said differently. Saying that case-by-case basis is the best is meaningless; in every situation in the world, case-by-case is the best. Even when you say men are generally taller than women, you can find cases that defy that. Even when you say that men have more facial hair than women, you can find cases that defy that. Even when you say that men (XY) have penises and women (XX) have vaginas, I can find you cases that defy that. Saying that it depends on case by case means absolutely NOTHING. The only change there is is in you, who, for the first time in your last post, admitted that all else equal, there is a greater likelihood of a Chinese person being loyal to China than a foreigner. This normally common sense statement took you this long to realize. Your reading comprehension was terrible, is still terrible, is further evidenced by your atrocious written grammar, and everybody except you sees that.


Of course they wouldn't for very little financial gain. What about for huge financial gain? That's the whole point of being aligned with money; they can be bought with more money, not less. Millions of dollars can be paid to them by companies that wish to skip billions of dollars in research. A loyal person would hold that offer and call the FBI with no thought to the money offered. A person whose loyalty lies only to money would think about arranging the deal and taking the first flight out. That is the difference between loyalty to country and loyalty to self.


No, the correct summary is that I have provided a common sense statement, that people of X ethnicity are more likely than any other ethnicity to be loyal to country X, supported by several other members, and you have your misconceptions based on your lack of ability to read and comprehend (and possibly also due to influence from your father). If it's off topic, then don't reply. Why would you write 10+ posts to me, then call off topic when you get repeatedly pinned?
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still at it? go read your old post. i already said, you can't only use born as indicator on this. furthermore go read up how US do its its background check. do they only care about where they were born or all type of factors are included. for example if a seaturtle work in china but has his family/house/financial and US green card in US vs say a indian who decide move his family to china permanently, all his fiancial/home/family are in china, and hold chinese green card which one is more security risk? i already said where is born are small part of overall before.

as for huge financial gain, anyone can be temptated including sea turtle. you think some how seaturtle wont be tempted by huge financial gain?

this is your quote. sound like your opinion of trust is base on whether they born in china or not.

Alright, guess I'll weigh in on this. Attracting foreign talent, and I mean truly foreign, not sea turtles, has it upsides and downsides. The upside is that when you are lagging badly in a field, hiring a couple of foreign experts to point you in the right direction is a quick boost, but the downside is that the trust level is not there and you are putting power and resources in the hands of someone who is aligned with nothing but money.
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