Chinese purchase of Su-35

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
The statement about KS-172 is what makes an overall very reasonable interview not without a grain of salt.
I have serious reasons to doubt many people in China truly know this zombie of a rocket good enough(or anywhere else). It neither passed state trials nor was a finished product, to begin with.

I think he is talking about how the Chinese long range missile is better than the known claimed performance specifications of KS-172. Not to even mention that it is a failed project with no users and no interest. There is not much to truly know about that missile further to the claims, of which are weak anyway. US has already retired Phoenix since before I can remember. Long range is nothing difficult. It is more an issue with what sort of targets such a missile can reliably engage that is the hard part. Guess why no interest in Russian long range missiles by any nation of the world?

So if this interviewee is to be believed, the claim that Chinese long range missile is better than the KS is nothing of surprise or a spectacular achievement. All it implies is that PLAAF indeed has at least one long range missile they HAVE inducted and is being used on fighters, most likely J-16. We can reasonably assume its role is against large valuable targets and close to useless against maneuverable fighters. Similar to the Phoenix and KS (or any Russian attempt at LRAAM). Who knows what the kill probability ranges are. So when he says it's better than KS, he could only know the range values, therefore it has better range than KS and given it is a modern missiles, it likely has better electronics and motors for a higher kill probability at long ranges.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
If the results were unexpected, just how low are their standards?? It would be a terrible shame if a su-35 couldn't be electronically defeated by more modern fighters which built by far more well funded organisations. There are reasons why the Americans and western Europeans do not bother with PESA. The su-35's main advantage will be WVR and definitely well above any non-AESA 4th gen fighter. Russians would almost certainly not sell China their best EW and ECCM modules. Hard to say whether PLAAF is fully aware of what subsystems are truly onboard RuAF Su-35 and PLAAF Su-35.
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
In A Recent Chinese Air Force War Game
Su-35, repeatedly been defeated, was no match for J-16 and J-10
中国引进苏35后演习结果出乎意料:被歼16歼10C压制
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Avionics! I remember a comment sometime back that even the J-10B can hold its own against the Su-35 in a BVR battle. So it is not surprising that the J-10C has the edge in BVR. J-16 is in a league of its own. It is second only to the J-20 in the PLAAF. Don't forget the J-20, J-16 and J-10C are the cream of the PLAAF. Next in line would be the Su-35 and J-10B.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
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It seems that the Su-35 is considered possibly the most maneuverable fighter in the PLAAF at the moment, notable considering its TVC and that no active PLA fighter employs TVC.

There should be no doubt about that, the Su-35 with OVT is one of the top 5 combat aircraft in the world in terms of aerodynamic agility, probably in the top 3!
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Avionics! I remember a comment sometime back that even the J-10B can hold its own against the Su-35 in a BVR battle. So it is not surprising that the J-10C has the edge in BVR. J-16 is in a league of its own. It is second only to the J-20 in the PLAAF. Don't forget the J-20, J-16 and J-10C are the cream of the PLAAF. Next in line would be the Su-35 and J-10B.

Yes, modern air combat is all about the Avionics...... when we are talking BVR, weapons will be a close second!
 

badger16

New Member
Registered Member
If the results were unexpected, just how low are their standards?? It would be a terrible shame if a su-35 couldn't be electronically defeated by more modern fighters which built by far more well funded organisations. There are reasons why the Americans and western Europeans do not bother with PESA. The su-35's main advantage will be WVR and definitely well above any non-AESA 4th gen fighter. Russians would almost certainly not sell China their best EW and ECCM modules. Hard to say whether PLAAF is fully aware of what subsystems are truly onboard RuAF Su-35 and PLAAF Su-35.

From the article it sounds that chief advantage is AESA radars' LPI capabilities. Su-35's ESM is not advanced enough to reliably detect LPI radars. Very hard to win a BVR fight under those conditions.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
There should be no doubt about that, the Su-35 with OVT is one of the top 5 combat aircraft in the world in terms of aerodynamic agility, probably in the top 3!
that's right.. the Chinese SU-35s should only be used in CQC/WVR scenarios against neer peer foes. In a dogfight I believe they are as capable as even the very best fighters out there. Ideally they would be placed to guard major cities or strategic assets and loaded with just SRAAMs, no external tanks etc.
they would only be used as a last ditch defence once outer layer defences have been breached and LR fighters eliminated.
 
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