Trade War with China

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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
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lol reality hits trump that his (navarro?) demands are untenable.

then again he'll proly flip flop again
Hahahaha This was the first deal reached between Mnuchen and Liu. Liu said China could buy more US agricultural products and that's it. Nothing on the IP. Mnuchen said mission accomplished but Trump didn't like that and thought he could do better so he started all this crap we've seen in the last few months. Now, it seems he realizes he can't do better so he's going back this "buy more farm stuff" deal that China originally offered. "Talk" about IP? Yeah, we can talk all day and all night; all year and into next year but talk is all we're gonna do LOL He sure cost American farmers a lot of rotten soybeans to learn this lesson.
 

hkbc

Junior Member
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lol reality hits trump that his (navarro?) demands are untenable.

then again he'll proly flip flop again

China's just playing for time, half way through Trump's term, already, the mood music from corporations is anti-trump, his tax cuts, military spending hikes and subsequent bail outs are just racking up more debt, all the noise about the chinese economy slow downs hides the fact the US economy is hitting a wall.

The Trump administration's, merry go round of firings and no hirings saps momentum, playing to the gallery, arguing with the press, stuffing the cabinet full of yes men and barely competents won't get the job done, Plonking china as the bogeyman front and centre only gets you so far, North Korea, Iran, opiod problems, healthcare, debt ceiling the need todo list just piles up and there's only 18 months or so before the next election circus.

If there was a hand to be played it would have been played, but further tariffs would have just tanked the US economy.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Hahahaha This was the first deal reached between Mnuchen and Liu. Liu said China could buy more US agricultural products and that's it. Nothing on the IP. Mnuchen said mission accomplished but Trump didn't like that and thought he could do better so he started all this crap we've seen in the last few months. Now, it seems he realizes he can't do better so he's going back this "buy more farm stuff" deal that China originally offered. "Talk" about IP? Yeah, we can talk all day and all night; all year and into next year but talk is all we're gonna do LOL He sure cost American farmers a lot of rotten soybeans to learn this lesson.

I don't understand why you are being so whipped up about it.
The title of the article states;
U.S. and China agree to new talks and hold off on raising tariffs for 90 days


Not anything about removing the present tariffs which will probably remain in place during the 90 days.
 
the rest of the WaPo article (not reposted inside
#2647 localizer, Today at 5:30 AM):
“This was an amazing and productive meeting with unlimited possibilities for both the United States and China,” Trump said in a statement issued from Air Force One as he returned to Washington. “It is my great honor to be working with President Xi.”

Even as Trump appeared to soften his approach to China, he talked tough on a separate trade front. Aboard Air Force One, the president told reporters that he would formally terminate the 24-year-old North American Free Trade Agreement in a political gamble designed to force wavering lawmakers to back his replacement treaty, dubbed the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement, or USMCA.

The temporary cease-fire in the U.S.-China trade war left the toughest issues to future bargaining sessions, which will attempt to succeed where earlier efforts failed — and under an ambitious 90-day deadline.

If the latest effort encounters the same roadblocks, Trump said he will proceed with his previous plan to raise tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese products to 25 percent from 10 percent, which was to have taken effect on Jan. 1.

The president also has threatened to extend the tariffs to everything the U.S. imports from China, which would involve an additional $267 billion in goods. There was no mention of that threat in the White House account of Saturday’s talks.

Some analysts said the talks had made important progress on cooperation on the North Korean nuclear program and restricting illicit Chinese shipments to the United States of the addictive opioid fentanyl, but did not represent a breakthrough in commercial diplomacy.

“On standard trade issues, this is where we were weeks ago,” said Derek Scissors, a China scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and sometimes adviser to the administration.

Economist Paul Ashworth of Capital Economics wrote in a note to clients: “We’ve been here before . . . China will have to offer a little more than the minor concessions that South Korea, Mexico and Canada agreed to reach trade deals with the U.S.”

The White House quoted Xi as saying he is “open to approving” Qualcomm’s $44 billion takeover of NXP Semiconductors, which the American company had abandoned in July after failing to secure Chinese regulatory approvals.

China’s refusal to approve the deal upended the global expansion plans of a premier American company and showcased Beijing’s ability to make the U.S. feel financial pain in ways other than tariffs.

While the Trump-Xi duet riveted most attendees here, the G-20 leaders agreed on a communique that reflected shared ambitions in economic development, finance and trade.

The communique was in harmony with “many of the United States’ biggest objectives,” especially in backing reform of the World Trade Organization, according to a senior administration official who briefed reporters on the condition of anonymity.

On climate change, however, the United States remained the lone holdout, with 19 other leaders pledging to implement the Paris accord to fight global warming. The United States instead reiterated Trump’s decision to withdraw from the accord.

G-20 leaders also agreed that the global trading system “is currently falling short of its objectives” and agreed to take stock of proposed overhauls at next year’s summit in Japan.

But it was the United States and China that dominated the spotlight.

Perhaps not since President Richard Nixon met Chinese leader Mao Zedong in 1972 have U.S.-China relations pivoted so closely around individual personalities, Aaron Friedberg, a China specialist at Princeton University, said.

“Both men have cast themselves as ‘maximum leaders,’ strong men defending the interests and honor of their nations,” Friedberg, a former foreign policy adviser to Vice President Richard B. Cheney, said via email. “Neither wants to appear weak, which would seem to narrow the scope for compromise, but neither wants to be blamed for a complete breakdown in relations.”

Trump and Xi met in April 2017 at the president’s Florida estate, Mar-a-Lago, and in Beijing in November 2017. After negotiations led by their subordinates ran aground, Trump telephoned Xi last month to reopen the dialogue.

The trade conflict, which has rattled financial markets and upended global supply chains, began this year when Trump imposed tariffs on $253 billion of imported Chinese steel, industrial products and consumer goods, including handbags, furniture and appliances.

Chinese officials, caught off guard by the aggressive U.S. moves, retaliated with import taxes on such American products as soybeans, automobiles and liquefied natural gas.

Trump and Xi met amid mounting worries that trade fights are undermining a weakening global economy. Christine Lagarde, managing director of the International Monetary Fund, said Saturday that “trade tensions have begun to have a negative effect” and are increasing the risk that growth will disappoint.
source:
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now
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: China, U.S. agree not to impose more tariffs starting Jan. 1, and to step up negotiations toward elimination of all additional tariffs, says Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi.

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and
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Xi-Trump meeting friendly, candid, says Chinese State Councilor and FM Wang Yi, adding the two leaders reached important consensus. (Photo: Xinhua)

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now I read
China, U.S. agree to avoid escalation of trade restrictive measures
Xinhua| 2018-12-02 12:07:43
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China and the United States on Saturday reached consensus on economic and trade issues and agreed to avoid escalation of trade restrictive measures.

Chinese President Xi Jinping and his U.S. counterpart, Donald Trump, held a meeting in the Argentine capital, Buenos Aires, on Saturday evening.

After the meeting, officials in charge of the Chinese economic team told Xinhua that the two sides held discussions on China-U.S. economic and trade issues and reached consensus.

The two heads of state spoke highly of positive and effective consultations held recently by the economic and trade teams of both sides.

The two sides recognized that their healthy and stable economic and trade relations conform to common interests of the two countries and the whole world.

The two sides decided to avoid escalation of trade restrictive measures, without further raising existing tariffs imposed on each other and slapping new additional tariffs on other products.

The two sides agreed to take immediate efforts to address issues of mutual concern based on mutual respect, equality and mutual benefit.

As required by the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, Beijing is committed to deepening reform and furthering opening-up. In the process, some economic and trade issues that are of Washington's concern will be solved. Meanwhile, the U.S. side will actively address China's concerns on economic and trade issues.

Xi and Trump have instructed the economic and trade teams of both sides to intensify consultation to reach an agreement, so as to lift the additional tariffs imposed this year and bring the bilateral economic and trade relations back to a normal track as soon as possible with a win-win outcome.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I don't understand why you are being so whipped up about it.
The title of the article states;

Not anything about removing the present tariffs which will probably remain in place during the 90 days.
Just laughing at Trump's incompetence of doing the same deal that he rejected when Mnuchen did it earlier. They're starting to see that there's no chance they'll get them IP situation to budge in China. They began by saying that China has to have concrete steps to remedy IP "theft" to even negotiate. Now, they're negotiating deals without any movement on the IP other than, "we'll talk later." That's basically trying to hold off American media from calling Trump a total failure but still they know they're not getting anything out of China. "We'll talk later" is a joke; they've been talking for years. China loves talking; we can talk about anything they want all day long LOL.

Anyway, I really don't want the tariffs to go away. I always believed they would do more damage to the US economy than China's and I'm sticking with that evermore with the current news.

Oh, and it's also pretty funny how much Trump kisses Xi's ass. He has angered every ally by calling them cowards, weak, shit-holes, he's side-lined Abe right in Japan calling the Japanese economy second rate, but every time, he says Xi is a great friend and it was "an honor" to work with him LOL. Xi just smiles and shrugs.
 
here's the CNN story
Trump agrees to freeze higher tariffs on $200B in Chinese goods — for now

Updated 1:33 AM ET, Sun December 2, 2018
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The leaders of the world's two largest economies, Donald Trump and Xi Jinping, agreed to a temporary truce on trade Saturday at a highly anticipated dinner in Argentina.
After the two-and-a-half hour discussion, Trump agreed to maintain the 10% tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods, and not raise them to 25% "at this time" ahead of a January 1 deadline, according to a White House statement from press secretary Sarah Sanders.
In exchange, China agreed it was willing to purchase a "very substantial" amount of agriculture, energy and other goods from the United States to help reduce the trade imbalance.
Calling the extended meeting "friendly and candid," State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi said the two leaders had agreed to open their markets to each other and to step up negotiations toward elimination of all additional tariffs.
A Chinese state media report said that the meeting had reached "an important consensus," pointing out "the direction for Sino-US relations in the near future."
"If it happens it goes down as one of the largest deals ever made," Trump told reporters on Air Force One during the return trip from the G20 summit in Buenos Aires. "It will have an incredibly positive impact on farming, meaning agriculture, industrial products, computers, every type of product."
According to the White House statement, the two leaders agreed to immediately begin negotiations on top US concerns related to forced technology transfer, intellectual property and cyber theft. Both parties agreed to complete negotiations within 90 days. If they fail to reach a deal, the 10% tariffs will rise to 25%.
In his remarks, Wang did not specifically mention the 90-day time limit the White House said negotiations had to be completed by.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Oh, and it's also pretty funny how much Trump kisses Xi's ass. He has angered every ally by calling them cowards, weak, shit-holes, he's side-lined Abe right in Japan calling the Japanese economy second rate, but every time, he says Xi is a great friend and it was "an honor" to work with him LOL. Xi just smiles and shrugs.

I don't know it looked as if PRC proclaimed yield not the US.We can wait and see.
 
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