Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Well this makes things more interesting.
Once upon a time in the 60s the Russians introducedthe BMP1 with a low velocity 73mm gun.
Then they introduced the improved BMP2 with a 30x163mm gun
Then they introduced the BMP3 with all the guns a 30mm and a low velocity 100mm smooth bore. They sold that to China.
Now they have elected for standardizing on the 57mm high velocity gun.
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Russian APC and IFV armored to be armed with 57mm guns
POSTED ON THURSDAY, 15 NOVEMBER 2018 06:1
The Russian Defense Ministry approved an armor development concept. All light armored vehicles (infantry fighting vehicles (IFV), armored personnel carriers (APC) and others) will have new maximum caliber of 57mm. The guns will be universal and will destroy tanks and down drones. The light armor with 57mm guns will have an edge against other combat vehicles of the class, the Izvestia daily writes.

Russian_APC_and_IFV_armored_to_be_armed_with_57mm_guns_925_001.jpg

2S38 "Derivatsya-PVO" self-propelled air defense system at Army-2018 defense exhibition near Moscow, August 2018. (Picture source: Army Recognition)

The Defense Ministry told the newspaper the new armor concept was approved this year. It was preceded by R&D which confirmed the feasibility of arming the vehicles with 57mm guns. At present IFV and APC are armed with 30mm or 100mm launchers. The latest armed conflicts showed they are not always effective against high-speed and armored targets. The more powerful 57mm gun will help Russian light armor fight APC and IFV and any adversary tank. It will destroy sights, heat imagers and other outside equipment or destroy highly protected Abrams tank by a side hit.

Armed jeeps and drones frequently become the main targets rather than hostile APC or IFV at present. They have to be destroyed at maximum distance with a minimal number of shells. The infantry mounted on light vehicles shall be denied a chance of the first strike with antitank guided missiles, while drones shall be barred from transmitting information to the command post.

The Russian defense industry has designed hardware that meets the latest combat requirements.
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and
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can be armed with 57mm automatic remotely controlled Baikal AU-220M artillery module. It has a high rate of fire up to 120 rounds per minute. The same gun can be mounted on heavy tracked
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platform created on Armata basis. Unmanned Kinzhal combat module has been designed for it. Its gun can fire to a distance of over 14 kilometers.

57mm guns are known as reliable antiaircraft weapons. The Soviet Union produced ZSU-57-2 self-propelled guns which were used in the war in Vietnam, Arab-Israeli and Iran-Iraq wars. ZSU had to destroy jets, but the absence of an automated radar decreased the effectiveness. The Russian defense industry coped with the problem. The prospective self-propelled
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with 57mm gun on BMP-3 undercarriage will be dangerous for helicopters and jets. A 57mm guided shell has been designed and is being tested to destroy low-signature and low-flying targets like tactical drones or MLRS projectiles, cruise missiles and other precision munitions.

The new guns will increase the firepower of the ground forces, expert Sergey Suvorov said. "He who rapidly fulfils the fire mission wins the modern war. 57mm caliber produces higher precision, destructive effect and armor-piercing capability than 30mm guns," he said. It has to ensure superiority of Russian hardware over foreign APC and IFV for years to come, the Izvestia writes.
Now the PLA at there trade shows has shown off a 40mm cased Teliscoped gun.
The French and British partnered and have there own 40mm CT gun system. Now being fitted to there next gen vehicles.
The German' s puma packs a 30mm gun but the Rhinmetal Lynx has a 35x228mm gun that I will come back to.
The Japanese went to a 35mm for there IFV
The South Koreans are big believers in go big or go home and use a 40x364mm Bofors of indigenous type the Swedish use the original L70 Bofors for their CV90 (for the record AC130 uses L60 guns which are different)
Most of the rest of the world chose to go with 25mm like the Bradley or 30mm like the Stryker.
Recently at the U.S. Army AUSA the Army voiced concerns about the range and overmarch of the Russian and Chinese mixed 30mm and 100 50mm guns and to counter it they started looking at a necked out 35mm cannon round called 50mm Supershot. This any 35mm gun (like the Lynx mounted one) could be built to fire. Now the Russians push to preemptively up gun to 57x347mmSR.
Of course questions still remain like can they afford to rebuild there existing armored fleet to these new guns? The ammo types are plentiful but the turrets are new and all the conversions would need a new turret.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
Well this makes things more interesting.
Once upon a time in the 60s the Russians introducedthe BMP1 with a low velocity 73mm gun.
Then they introduced the improved BMP2 with a 30x163mm gun
Then they introduced the BMP3 with all the guns a 30mm and a low velocity 100mm smooth bore. They sold that to China.
Now they have elected for standardizing on the 57mm high velocity gun.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Now the PLA at there trade shows has shown off a 40mm cased Teliscoped gun.
The French and British partnered and have there own 40mm CT gun system. Now being fitted to there next gen vehicles.
The German' s puma packs a 30mm gun but the Rhinmetal Lynx has a 35x228mm gun that I will come back to.
The Japanese went to a 35mm for there IFV
The South Koreans are big believers in go big or go home and use a 40x364mm Bofors of indigenous type the Swedish use the original L70 Bofors for their CV90 (for the record AC130 uses L60 guns which are different)
Most of the rest of the world chose to go with 25mm like the Bradley or 30mm like the Stryker.
Recently at the U.S. Army AUSA the Army voiced concerns about the range and overmarch of the Russian and Chinese mixed 30mm and 100 50mm guns and to counter it they started looking at a necked out 35mm cannon round called 50mm Supershot. This any 35mm gun (like the Lynx mounted one) could be built to fire. Now the Russians push to preemptively up gun to 57x347mmSR.
Of course questions still remain like can they afford to rebuild there existing armored fleet to these new guns? The ammo types are plentiful but the turrets are new and all the conversions would need a new turret.

"57mm guns are known as reliable antiaircraft weapons. The Soviet Union produced ZSU-57-2 self-propelled guns which were used in the war in Vietnam, Arab-Israeli and Iran-Iraq wars. ZSU had to destroy jets, but the absence of an automated radar decreased the effectiveness. "
You know I just love how these articles likes to muddle the facts. It was the ZSU-23-4 that was the bane of jet fighters. The ZSU-57-2 was quickly decommissioned shortly afterwards.
I did expect the new PVO to serve just as short a service life in the AA role. With only an electro optical guidance system, it will be extremely hard for it to target attack helicopters that uses long range ATGM. Plus with the limited amount of ammunition it can carry it is gonna run dry pretty quick.
And why is Russia so concerned with one upping the competition in this regard. A uprated 30 or 35mm can easily deal with most APCs and IFVs out there, and when dealing with extremely heavy IFVs like the Puma you are better off firing a ATGM right at it in the first place.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
With only an electro optical guidance system, it will be extremely hard for it to target attack helicopters that uses long range ATGM. Plus with the limited amount of ammunition it can carry it is gonna run dry pretty quick.
Attack Choppers are not the only threat these days small drones are a big one. Especially since they can carry anti armor weapons. The antiaircraft role in this case is more of a secondary. Most IFV Auto cannons are capable of Antiaircraft gunning to a degree. Even tank guns with the right ammo will swat a Attack Chopper down.
why is Russia so concerned with one upping the competition in this regard.
Range is a big factor the 57mm gun can put range some ATGM systems. With the exception of the Latest T15 Armata IFVs the vast majority of the front line Russian IFV are light weight with relivtivly thin armor. The Russians use ERA and occasional APS systems to make up for there thin protection. However Russian APS and ERA are fixed point systems. This makes them susseptable to repeat attack and as yet most APS are lack luster against auto cannons.
In recent years the U.S. and European makers have shown an interest in giving light and nimble unarmored and light armored vehicles increased power with auto cannons like the M230LF. In other words a Humvee can now pack fire power equal to a IFV.
The Russians want to nip that in the bud. A weapon like a 57mm air burst round would chew up a Humvee with a near hit.
That caliber would also be devastating in a HE shell against urban cover. Demolishing walls and structures with single hits.
A uprated 30 or 35mm can easily deal with most APCs and IFVs out there, and when dealing with extremely heavy IFVs like the Puma you are better off firing a ATGM right at it in the first place.
Right now we are seeing changes in the IFV/APC market.
Light armor is changing as vehicles previously unarmored like utility 4x4s are now moving up Well previously standard vehicles are being rebuilt to medium weight.
Medium weight is becoming the new normal for all but Airborne or third world parties. The latest version of traditional IFV and APCs like the Bradley are being unarmored to 30mm protection standard.
Because the vast majority of modern IFV pack 30mm guns most of these same vehicles have protection against that threat on there frontal arc.
Hence why bother with a 30mm?
More and more nations are even looking beyond that.
The Heavy IFV class is still emerging but if you think 57mm in a IFV will have a small magazine ATGMs are tiny capacity maybe 2 ready to go shots then needing a reload.
But then there is systems like Trophy and the emerging Hard Kill APS systems that are designed to defeat ATGMs ARMS and are becoming standard for heavy IFVs liken the Namer.
That means that you fire a ATGM and before impact watch as the missile is swatted from the sky and then that vehicle turns it's attentions to you.
A heavier gun system will have a higher velocity than existing APS can deal with.
Against this a heavier gun caliber and round would push the range out and mean better penetration. A 30mm Soviet 30mm has an effective range of 2km the American Mk44 Bushmaster II is 3km 35mm, 40mm and 57mm is all about 4km. The 100mm gun on the BMP3 is about that as is. But the 100mm BMP3 gun is not a penitrator it's a grenade thrower. It fires HE rounds at a low velocity.
As is the BMP3 packs in 500 rounds of 30mm and 40 round of 100mm with 8 more in the form of ATGM. That is less than the normal load of 30mm rounds found in the western peer. The Russians accepted this compromise as did the PLA because that 100mm does nasty things to infantry and will disable a IFV.
With the 57mm now they would streamline the ammo types. The AU220M turret is apparently unmanned to save space. Supposedly is packs in 200 rounds of 57mm and 2000 rounds of 7.62x54mm coax. The down side? It's penetrating unmanned. The basket is in the hull like a manned turret that means that you have to figure out where to put the gunner and commander in the hull and BMP3 is not very roomy. Heck the infantry has to crawl over the engine to get in and out.

For comparison the South Korean K21 and CV9040 both pack 40mm guns also derived from antiaircraft cannons. The 40mm L70 Bofors. Cv9040 has a painful loading system but the South Koreans have a far better one. 24 ready rounds that is topped off from a 200 round autoloader for a vehicle load of 224. So when you grade based off another big shell auto Canon armed IFV a BMP3 with a 57mm is not that bad ammo wise. But where it WILL get unfair capacity wide is vs more modern ammo types. The Cased Teliscoped European auto cannon when trailed in prototype form was fitted in a Bradley it had a 105 round ready rack. The ammo has a similar propellent capacity to 40mm Bofors.
57mm used bybthe russians is a post world war two system. In the end the big trade off for the bigger rounds vs the conventional ammo is decreased margin of error.
A Bradley has 900 rounds of 25mm ammo with 300 ready to go. Miss the first shot plenty more. The ready rounds of these are smaller so missing the first shot means less potential for follow on. This changes how the gun is used for the crew. 20 &25mm are often used almost like machine guns. The ZSU 23-4 worked as it put up a ton of lead the 57mm demanded more accuracy. As the rate of fire is far less. It would and still did down jets but it was harder then spraying.
 
Nov 3, 2018
Mar 1, 2018while now it appears (
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) India purchased two NEW hulls

(NOT "Admirals Triple"
Butakov, shipyard item #01360;
Istomin 01361;
Kornilov 01362;
hulls),

and those hulls for India are to get Ukrainian (
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) turbines;

it's confusing to the point I'll now clip the part of that blog post to check I didn't misunderstand it:

"... согласно источникам нашего блога, два фрегата проекта 11356 для Индии по подписанному контракту будут построены на ПСЗ «Янтарь» полностью с "нуля", а не будут достроенными тремя приостановленными постройкой на заводе для ВМФ России фрегатами проекта 11356 ...

Что касается трех остающихся на ПСЗ «Янтарь» недостроенных фрегатов проекта 11356 (заводские номера 01360, 01361 и 01362), то, по имеющейся информации, их достройка для ВМФ России числится в Государственной программе вооружений на 2018-2027 года. ..."

oh and the cost (LOL how could I forget) of those two new hulls: $950m (nine-hundred-and-fifty million US dollars)
and now
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  • reverted to the Butakov and Istomin hulls for India (instead of two new hulls to be built for India), plus
  • raised $1200m (instead of $950 previously) LOL!
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
I did expect the new PVO to serve just as short a service life in the AA role. With only an electro optical guidance system, it will be extremely hard for it to target attack helicopters that uses long range ATGM. Plus with the limited amount of ammunition it can carry it is gonna run dry pretty quick.
That is the point, actually. Army air defence is a weird mix of interlocking passive and active aa systems. It is this way precisely to deny enemy the ability to shut network down completely. New Sosna is exactly the same, optics only. Among army short range air defence vehicles on order(pantsir out), only thor family is activelly emitting radiowaves left and right.
And while vehicle itself is passive, it is still fully integrated in AA network, i.e. it will still get its targeting data from other sources.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Are there any of those Su-57 youtube RT documentary versions with English subs yet? A lot of good footage and looks like Russians are showing their military hardware off a bit in that RT series. Wouldn't mind watching the Su-57 video with subs like they have for so many of those documentaries.
 

bruceb1959

Junior Member
Registered Member
^ Hell yeah, RT Doc's Combat Approved! They are releasing one of the Buyan-M corvette on 26th Nov!
The 'Combat Approved'
Are there any of those Su-57 youtube RT documentary versions with English subs yet? A lot of good footage and looks like Russians are showing their military hardware off a bit in that RT series. Wouldn't mind watching the Su-57 video with subs like they have for so many of those documentaries.

RT's 'Combat Approved' series is definitely worth a watch .. the presenter's comments and questions are often quite trite .. but the close up look at the hardware is worthwhile
 

anzha

Senior Member
Registered Member
Russia’s new heavy unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), Okhotnik (Hunter), performed its first ground run on the runway of the aviation plant in Novosibirsk earlier this month, a Russian aircraft industry source has told TASS.

"The trial model of the Okhotnik UAV made its first run on the runway of the Novosibirsk Aircraft Production Plant, gathering the speed of 200 kmph in line with the program of trials. The takeoff was not performed," the source said. "Okhotnik performed taxi, ground run, acceleration and stoppage at the end of the runway in fully automated mode."

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