Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

[Jura The idiot]

Hey, I think we ought to give them blue prints for the F-22 and pay em to build us another 500, I sure would!

LOL will quote you again my Bethlehem steel post ...
from F-22 Raptor Thread Jan 31, 2016

yes but it would be similar as if you sought large nickel-steel face-hardened 16"-thick plates now: you would get the charts from an archive quickly, go to Pennsylvania, but I guess you would hear "We don't produce nickel steel anymore ... and we don't have that big ingots for face-hardening ... and anyway we don't know the chunk will withheld the stress you specified, so why don't you ask elsewhere" LOL

 

[FORBIN]

Hey, I think we ought to give them blue prints for the F-22 and pay em to build us another 500, I sure would!

Delusional from a fanboy completely biased it is an honor the joke is on him

You see the deal 288 vs about 1500 in 2030 it is a good deal Yeaah ofc we are not in the reality

 

[Jiang ZeminFanboy]

Exactly a lot of people here are delusional. China plan to have 3 production line for J 20 . Even discounting the news we can be sure that She will have at least 2 line open based on J 10 production line .

Assuming the production rate of 2 per month We can calculate that by 2030 China will have 12X12X2= 288 That is roughly 12 squadron!
So yeah keep on dreaming! Japan is fighting a loosing battle trying to compete against China with defense budget of only 50 million USD. Eventually the economy talk and I don't see it will change in the future

Now about GDP people forget that the combined population of the wealthier provinces in China is probably exceed Europe And they have high income , based on 2016 PPP which is outdated. We have the richer province of Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Beijing and Tianjin percapita income of $30000
View attachment 43151

Gdp has been revised up.

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[TerraN_EmpirE]

Yes but the power of an Air Force is not only the number of stealth/BTW now only USAF have plans and means for have a full stealth fighters in fact consirdered "specials", more capable even USAF have on 2100 fighters+ Bombers ( with only F-35 block 3i )really combat capable 230 aircrafts so about 10%

Yes now but we are talking about projections into the Future. As more come on line More F35 will be combat capable. That is something people don't get the longer the lines are open the more availability for parts integration and systems, The US has been the lead on F35 building out of one production line by the 2020's atleast 3 lines will be open meaning more production.

More capable which is not true by ex a F-15E is much more versatile than a F-22 and also the F-16 1000 on 2000 fighters is more affordable each have an advantage but fanboys... hypnotised by only some... which represent nothing or almost actualy.

Actually F15E and F22 are both capable of both air to air and air to land. And Versatility goes to the stealthy as they can also operate deeper in denied airspace. Where F15E was and still is Queen is in missions against Opfor lacking Air defence systems. however as we have seen Air defence systems in trouble zones are proliferating. As time goes by historically sophisticated systems become more common and Cheaper.

BTW now only USAF have plans and means for have a full BTW now only USAF have plans and means for have a full stealth fighters-bombers Fleet for end 2030's, Russians, Chinese have build new 4.5 Generation and going for build again long time.

well not entirely full. The USAF will likley still have Some F15C, F15E, a few F16 and of course T-X. US Allies like Japan and South Korea are likley to retain there conventional Airforces for some time.

Exactly a lot of people here are delusional. China plan to have 3 production line for J 20 . Even discounting the news we can be sure that She will have at least 2 line open based on J 10 production line .

Yes as the PRC is a much larger singular nation. however and this is critical. They have a much larger area of Responsibility

Assuming the production rate of 2 per month We can calculate that by 2030 China will have 12X12X2= 288 That is roughly 12 squadron!

impressive numbers but they need to cover all 4 corners of China. the Northern threat of Russia, the western threat of India, the southern states, pressure on Taiwan, South Korea, North Korea, the Philippines, Japan, the US.

So yeah keep on dreaming! Japan is fighting a loosing battle trying to compete against China with defense budget of only 50 million USD. Eventually the economy talk and I don't see it will change in the future

They don't need to. They are upping their budget yes but they don't need to match line for line. they only need to push there own. Remember Japan is not in a vacuum. All Japan has to do is maintain it's own territorial defence and make and maintain partnerships.

 

[by78]

well well If they didn't start it today. It will be 2027 before the first production jet coming off the assembly line. By then China will have hundred of J-20 or even more potent aircraft
Designing aircraft from scratch take a lot of money and perseverance few country can afford it. Not even the European

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Exclusive: Japan to delay multi-billion dollar fighter jet development - sources

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,

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5 MIN READ

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan will delay a decision to develop a new advanced fighter jet, four sources said, as military planners struggle to settle on a design and officials splash out on new U.S. equipment such as ballistic missile interceptors and F-35 stealth planes.

Faced with a growing military threat from North Korea and increased activity by Chinese air force jets over the East China Sea, Japan is under pressure to improve its defenses on two fronts.

Any delay to the new fighter, known as the F-3, will raise a question mark over the future of what could be one of the world’s most lucrative upcoming military contracts, estimated at more than $40 billion to develop and deploy.

A decision after the first half of 2018 would be too late for it to be included as a core program in a new five-year defense equipment plan beginning April 2019 that Japan will reveal at the end of next year.

“The direction is for the F-3 decision to be put back,” said one the sources who have knowledge of the discussion. The people who spoke to Reuters asked not to be identified because they are not authorized to talk to the media.

They said the decision, on whether to forge ahead as a domestic program or seek international collaboration, would now likely come after 2018.

“Regarding the F-3 decision, including whether we will delay a choice, we have haven’t come to any conclusion,” a spokeswoman for the Ministry of Defence Acquisition Technology & Logistics Agency said.


SQUEEZE
Analysts estimate developing the F-3 could cost $40 billion, a figure described another source as an “initial cost.”

With a defense budget of around $50 billion that has increased in the past few years at just under an annual 1 percent, that outlay, even spread out over years of development, represents a major undertaking.

It would come at a time when Japan is spending a record amounts on U.S. equipment, including Lockheed Martin Corp’s F-35 jet, Raytheon defense missiles and Boeing Co and Textron Inc’s tilt-rotor Osprey troop aircraft.

In 2013, Japan procured 118 billion yen ($1 billion) of equipment through the U.S. government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system. By last year, that outlay had quadrupled to 486 billion yen.

President Donald Trump in Tokyo last week called on Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to purchase additional U.S.-made weapons as his administration pushes Washington’s allies to contribute more to their joint defense.

DUAL ROLE
For now, that defense is focused on countering the threat posed by North Korean ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons.

Japan’s defense forces, however, want the F-3 to counter growing Chinese air power in the skies over the western Pacific and East China Sea where Tokyo and Beijing are locked in a territorial dispute.

Japanese fighters scrambled a record 806 times to intercept Chinese planes in the year that ended March 31.

A second role for the yet-to-be-built fighter is to reinforce Japan’s defense industry by giving Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) and its suppliers their first fighter jet program since Japan built its F-2 fighter two decades ago.


Mitsubishi Heavy, the maker of the World War Two-era Zero fighter, in January 2016 tested a prototype jet, the ATD-X. Developed for around $350 million, it was seen as the first step toward a new homegrown frontline stealth fighter.

While support for a domestic-only program is strong among some government officials, other bureaucrats are worried about the potentially enormous expense of developing components from scratch. They support international collaboration to share costs with overseas partners and tap their technology.

“What we have now is a flying box” without all the systems that constitute a fighter such as weapons and sensors, said another of the sources.

Possible overseas partners include BAE Systems, a leading designer of the high-altitude Eurofighter interceptor backed by the British government, F-35 builder Lockheed Martin and Boeing, maker of the F-18 strike fighter. All have responded to initial requests for information from Ministry of Defence overseeing F-3 plans.

Reporting by Tim Kelly and Nobuhiro Kubo; Editing by Lincoln Feast

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@SamuraiBlue

 

[Blitzo]

F3 was always advertised as a 6th gen development program that means it's aimed for fielding in the 2030's the demonstrator they have flown is a test bed not a prototype. for the hearer term they will be getting F35's. by the early 2030's baring some huge advancement in 3D Printing manufacturing most of the PLAAF will still be based on 4th generation fighters with a few squadrons of J20's and maybe a few J31. As long as the Japanese Keep their F15J's uptodate and procure F35's and Datalinks that can allow their legacy fighters to work together the should be alright.

I think over the last few years, it became quite clear that F-3 would be more of a 5th generation fighter, perhaps "5+" at most.

Considering what the various proposed configurations look like (the most recent of which can be found in the thread over on secret projects:

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), namely very similar to F-22's, I think one would be have to be smoking something strange to consider it to be 6th generation.

In any case, merely being aimed for "fielding" in the 2030s does not make a fighter under development "6th" generation (whatever that may mean).
After all, there are many fighters under development that will likely enter service in the 2030s yet still be only 5th generation -- KFX, TFX, AMCA.

Similarly, just because a number of fighters were introduced in the 2000s (like JASDF F-2, typhoon, rafale, J-10 etc), did not make them "5th generation". Those fighters were merely "late" 4th generation fighters (or "4+") produced after the US Teen series and USSR/Russian Flanker and Mig-29 (and French Mirage).

Similarly, I expect KFX, TFX, AMCA, and F-3 if it gets built, to end up as more "late 5th generation fighters" or perhaps "5+" generation fighters.

 

[Blitzo]

@SamuraiBlue

dude, don't goad people...

 

[by78]

dude, don't goad people...

I wasn't goading. For once, I was actually curious about what he thinks.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

@SamuraiBlue

It's not even a storm in a teacup type situation.
Tell me how long does it take to develop a modern fighter plane from inception to initial production?
F-22, F-35,etc. with all the generation leap technologies took more than a decade.
What DoD, ALTA and JASDF are mulling is what future technologies are probable, possible within a decade and which nation would be most cooperative in going ahead if co-development is chosen as a path in developing the F-3.
It was already mentioned 5,6 years ago that the next fighter will not be ready until in the 2030's. They also floated various future concept technology that should be considered that could be incorporated. Now they are at the point of making the final decision on what is going in and what is going to be thrown out to meet the deadline.

Nothing more.

The F-35As were only stop gaps from the start to replace the already antiquated F-4Js in which there were no way to extend their lifespan further and no replacement on the market.
The only question is the life extension programs for the F-15Js. Will it be enough?
The F-35A block X may be thrown in to replace some F-2 BUT that is because they are for multipurpose fighter roles to shoot ASMs not as air superiority fighters as their main role.
That is the main role for the F-3s.

 

[FORBIN]

It's not even a storm in a teacup type situation.
Tell me how long does it take to develop a modern fighter plane from inception to initial production?
F-22, F-35,etc. with all the generation leap technologies took more than a decade.
What DoD, ALTA and JASDF are mulling is what future technologies are probable, possible within a decade and which nation would be most cooperative in going ahead if co-development is chosen as a path in developing the F-3.
It was already mentioned 5,6 years ago that the next fighter will not be ready until in the 2030's. They also floated various future concept technology that should be considered that could be incorporated. Now they are at the point of making the final decision on what is going in and what is going to be thrown out to meet the deadline.

Nothing more.

The F-35As were only stop gaps from the start to replace the already antiquated F-4Js in which there were no way to extend their lifespan further and no replacement on the market.
The only question is the life extension programs for the F-15Js. Will it be enough?
The F-35A block X may be thrown in to replace some F-2 BUT that is because they are for multipurpose fighter roles to shoot ASMs not as air superiority fighters as their main role.
That is the main role for the F-3s.

So now F-3 cancelled sure ?

And in this case for very soon new F-35A orders make sense the need is for how many 100 others ?