China Flanker Thread II

[Engineer]

I am not sure that is true Indian press make is sound like the Indian prevail the competition. But I remember clearly one of US team captain said otherwise . He even mocked the Indian on youtube about how they try to use Cobra maneuver to kill the US pilot but instead the Indian bled so much energy and it drop and become an easy prey for the US team

You probably can still find it on youtube

Two different exercises.

The first exercise was where the Su-30MKI "defeated" the F-15's. That's probably the one Josh referred to, but you can tell that the F-15's lose on purpose to gather intelligence and to entertain the Indian. The second exercise was where the F-15's actually did things for real, and the Su-30MKI with TVC stood no chance.

 

[jobjed]

Two different Red Flag exercises.

The first exercise was where the Su-30MKI "defeated" the F-15's. That's probably the one Josh referred to, but you can tell that the F-15's lose on purpose to gather intelligence and to entertain the Indian. The second exercise was where the F-15's actually did things for real, and the Su-30MKI with TVC stood no chance.

The first exercise also involved novice USAF pilots flying against experienced IAF pilots. The novices had no idea how to exploit the disadvantages of a TVC aircraft and got defeated repeatedly. When the IAF came to Red Flag, they flew against pilots that had to fly against the Raptor so their MKIs were pieces of cake by comparison.

 

[Hyperwarp]

Wait till the PLAAF pilots get into WVR fights with Indian Su-30MKIs. Although I agree that PLAAF pilots' skills have increased in recent years, Indian pilots with Su-30MKIs have defeated USAF pilots with F-15Cs in WVR more than once (Red Flag Exercises). However, the Indian pilots largely relied on their TVCs to defeat the F-15Cs. Still, if the J-10s and J-11s fail to take out the Su-30MKIs at BVR in a hypothetical aerial encounter, I wonder if the formers' chances in taking out the latter would decrease sharply.

There 230 MKI in the IAF. As of this moment that is the biggest threat to the PLAAF when it comes to air-to-air combat (until Rafale enters service). MKI can carry up to 12 AAM. These will be supported by Phalcon AWACS. I don't fancy the 1-on-1 chances of the J-11A/11B against the MKI either BVR or WVR.

But, PLAAF will have get the upper hand during BVR. J-16 (about 50) and some J-11B (only a few) can launch the ultra long ranged PL-X missiles. IAF AWACS as well as some of the MKI will be targeted by them. Once the AWACS is taken out the odds change dramatically

Then the 8x Su-35 supported by hundreds of J-11A/11B will have to deal with as many MKI as possible.

When it comes WVR there are over 100 J-10B/C armed with PL-10 next generation AAM for dogfights. These are early AIM-9X/IRIS-T class missiles and will be deadly in dogfights unlike the previous J-10A with PL-8B.

I deliberately left out the J-20.

 

[Hyperwarp]

The first exercise also involved novice USAF pilots flying against experienced IAF pilots. The novices had no idea how to exploit the disadvantages of a TVC aircraft and got defeated repeatedly. When the IAF came to Red Flag, they flew against pilots that had to fly against the Raptor so their MKIs were pieces of cake by comparison.

Actually no. The 1st was "Cope India 2004". The Su-30MKI was not used during that exercise. What was used was the older Su-30K, Mirage-2000, MiG-29 and MiG-21 BiSON. What took the USAF by surprise was the IAF including the MiG-21 simulating active radar R-77s.

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Su-30MKI was sent to Red-Flag but with novice pilots and they got there a$$es kicked. During "Cope India 2004" only the very best IAF pilots participated.

Indians did a similar thing with the Brits. During the 1st round of Su-30MKI vs Eurofighter engagements, the EF tore the MKI to pieces (or so the RAF pilots were bragging). But the Indians omitted important details. They did NOT use TVC and were under strict RoE. It was locked out. But the next time the IAF sent MKI to the UK it was all bets-off and suddenly the RAF pilots weren't bragging so much. If there rumors are to be believed, this time it was EF that got spanked.

 

[Blitzo]

There 230 MKI in the IAF. As of this moment that is the biggest threat to the PLAAF when it comes to air-to-air combat (until Rafale enters service). MKI can carry up to 12 AAM. These will be supported by Phalcon AWACS. I don't fancy the 1-on-1 chances of the J-11A/11B against the MKI either BVR or WVR.

But, PLAAF will have get the upper hand during BVR. J-16 (about 50) and some J-11B (only a few) can launch the ultra long ranged PL-X missiles. IAF AWACS as well as some of the MKI will be targeted by them. Once the AWACS is taken out the odds change dramatically

Then the 8x Su-35 supported by hundreds of J-11A/11B will have to deal with as many MKI as possible.

When it comes WVR there are over 100 J-10B/C armed with PL-10 next generation AAM for dogfights. These are early AIM-9X/IRIS-T class missiles and will be deadly in dogfights unlike the previous J-10A with PL-8B.

I deliberately left out the J-20.

Any modern air war between any two nations' air forces will be a confrontation between systems of systems that is not limited to only the air force service.

In other words it is not only fighters + AEW&C vs opposing fighters + opposing AEW&C.

It is a combination of fighters + AEW&C + strike aircraft + bombers + stand off jammers + escort jammers + ground based IADS/SAMs + strike capabilities (including non air force strike capabilities such as missile systems like LACM, SRBM, IRBM) + satellites, and refuelling aircraft , all combined together, versus the other side's equivalent assets all put together, to have the ability to defend your own airbases, aircraft, command/control assets and force multipliers while inflicting maximum damage against the opponent's as well.

 

[Deino]

 

[b787]

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Chinese flanker (J-11BS) defeated two Pakistanis JF-17s in 1 vs 2 aerial combat.

what a bad publicity for the Chinese JF-17, defeated by an old Soviet design first flown in 1977/1981 and refurbished in 1990 and in 2004 in China,


Interesting since it seems

Bolivia's main interest is buying between 8 and 12 IA-63 Pampa III light strike aircraft, to be built at Argentina's Fábrica Argentina de Aviones SA (FAdeA) factory in Cordoba, the sources said.

The aircraft are to replace recently retired ageing Lockheed/Canadair T-33s, which were heavily used to intercept drug trafficking flights.

According to sources, Bolivia was not satisfied with Chinese HAI K-8W K-8 Karakorum trainer aircraft for intercept missions.

Bolivian-Argentine talks started in July 2017 under a memorandum of understanding signed by both countries in September 2015, and have developed with participation of Bolivian officers and Bolivia's ambassador in Buenos Aires, Normando Alvarez.

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That is bad publicity, in my opinion China still has some quality issues, for example

The Argentine Aircraft Factory (FAdeA) had signed a contract with the Chinese company CATIC for the local manufacture under license of the helicopter Z-11 in Argentina and whose presentation was the 10 of October of 2012. Locally was denominated CZ-11 " Pampero ", which was assembled a single unit fully imported and after many hours of flight for certification, before the change of FAA authorities, the project was completely rejected. It was a further failure of previous authorities strongly suspected of corruption. It is unknown what will be the destination of the helicopter mentioned

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And know after this blow who will want to buy JF-17 if it can not even stand a modernized old soviet fighter!

 

[manqiangrexue]

what a bad publicity for the Chinese JF-17, defeated by an old Soviet design first flown in 1977/1981 and refurbished in 1990 and in 2004 in China,


Interesting since it seems



That is bad publicity, in my opinion China still has some quality issues, for example


And know after this blow who will want to buy JF-17 if it can not even stand a modernized old soviet fighter!

So very obvious you're trolling.

The Flanker is an expensive heavy air-superiority fighter that comprises the hi of the hi-lo mix and modernized flankers are the backbone of both China and Russia's air force. The JF-17 was designed as a budget light-weight fighter for countries unable to afford higher more expensive options and it's lower than the low for the hi-lo combination for China. It costs less than half the price of a flanker. If JF-17 was superior J-11B, then China has made some terrible decisions when furbishing its air force.

Anyway, I wrote that for anyone who was new enough to think that your post was serious. For you, I give this:

That's the superior skill of the PLAAF. 2 new fighters vs 1 old fighter? No problem; we win anyway!

 

[vesicles]

what a bad publicity for the Chinese JF-17, defeated by an old Soviet design first flown in 1977/1981 and refurbished in 1990 and in 2004 in China,


Interesting since it seems



That is bad publicity, in my opinion China still has some quality issues, for example


And know after this blow who will want to buy JF-17 if it can not even stand a modernized old soviet fighter!

A 1970's/80's Ferrari will beat a 2017 Toyota Corolla in a race. Is that a bad publicity for Toyota? No, because two cars have been designed to do different things for different purposes. The JF-17 has never been designed to go up against something in the class of the J-11 or the Su-27 or the F-15.

 

[b787]

So very obvious you're trolling. The Flanker is an expensive heavy air-superiority fighter that comprises the hi of the hi-lo mix and modernized flankers are the backbone of both China and Russia's air force. The JF-17 was designed as a budget light-weight fighter for countries unable to afford higher more expensive options and it's lower than the low for the hi-lo combination for China. It costs less than half the price of a flanker. If JF-17 was superior J-11B, then China has made some terrible decisions when furbishing its air force. Anyway, I wrote that for anyone who was new enough to think that your post was serious. For you, I give this:

That's the superior skill of the PLAAF. 2 new fighters vs 1 old fighter? No problem; we win anyway!

let me see, can F-16 take on a F-15? yes it can. a MiG-29 on a Su-27? yes it can, if JF-17 can not take on a J-11 (which by the way is a Soviet/Russian design regardless all the nomenclature to hide its true origin) tell me if you are going to buy an aircraft not even taken by its maker and defeated by an old soviet design who will buy it? that is bad publicity.

why you will by an aircraft if you are attacked your air force is wiped out, i would better buy an F-16 or Rafale