J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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b787

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Chinese fighter J-20


Fighter J-20: Chinese sensation or remake of the Soviet heritage
At the end of the past - the beginning of this year, various sources reported on the arrival of the first J-20 combat aviation complexes in the People's Liberation Army of China (PLA). Outwardly, they represent heavy tactical fighters of the aerodynamic scheme "duck" (delta wing with canard) with a large deltoid wing and all-turning front vertical tail (TsPGO).

Space survey confirms the stay of this type of vehicles at Xi'an-Yanliang airbase, which is engaged in evaluating the capabilities of new aircraft. The combat units are expecting serial samples in the coming months. Thus, China becomes the world's second largest state after the US, whose armed forces receive fifth-generation fighters.

Meanwhile, the first flight of the Sukhoi T-50 aircraft, created under the program of the Advanced Aviation Front-Line Aviation Complex (PAK FA), took place one year earlier than the J-20 (January 2010 and 2011 events, respectively), and the transfer of commercial air- Russia's space forces are planned next summer. To date, seven T-50 flight models have been flown around against eight prototypes for the J-20 (built during 2011-2015 inclusive) and four cars of the installation series (from 2016). On this fact, however, we should not rush to conclusions, because, as the history of aviation shows, "saving" on flight tests will lead to nothing good.



Apparently, Beijing is clearly in a hurry with the introduction of the next-generation fighter aircraft, seeking to quickly catch up with decades of lagging behind the main geopolitical rival - the United States. According to Chinese officials, the PLA's need for J-20 aircraft is 500-700 units. Let's note that China is the only aviation power that decided to simultaneously develop a heavy (J-20) and light (J-31, the first flight in October 2012) fighter of the fifth generation. Nobody in the world does this because such programs are very expensive, with a lot of technological challenges and various kinds of risks.

Recall that the US consistently created the first heavy F-22A Raptor (the first flight of the demonstrator YF-22 - 1990, the prototype F-22A - in 1997, in service since 2005), and then the light F-35 Lightning II (the first flight - 2006, in service since 2015).



At the same time, both American fighters underwent and continue to undergo numerous improvements in the course of flight testing and operation in combat units due to a significant number of identified shortcomings.

Meanwhile, the first flight of the J-20 and the transfer of the PLA air force to the first aircraft of the installation batch is shared by less than five years - a record short time, three times less than that of Americans (15 years in the case of Raptor). Was the car so good initially that it took a lot of time to test it ?!

Information sources

It is difficult for outside observers to give an objective assessment of the products of the aircraft industry of China because of the lack of reliable information. The only time the product of Chinese masters was shown publicly on November 1 last year. A pair of J-20 at low altitude passed over the airport of the port city of Zhuhai during the flight show program on the opening day of the aerospace Airshow China-2016. Flying along the runway, one vehicle immediately left the zone, and the second disappeared from sight in a couple of minutes , Having executed some simple maneuvers.



In view of the stinginess of the data directly from the Chinese aircraft builders and the military, the world community has to rely on figures and statements from outside organizations and experts. Mainly news on the program, "it feeds" various kinds of unofficial Chinese sources that regularly upload pictures and videos about the J-20 to the World Wide Web with indistinct explanations, and sometimes even without them, where and when the survey was performed. Sometimes frank fakes come across, like, for example, a "photo" mounted on the computer with the prototype J-20 on the deck of the aircraft carrier Liaoning (former TAVKR "Varyag" project 1143.6, sold by Ukraine and completed in Dalian). In a word, the quality of the available information leaves much to be desired.

The most reliable type of information on the J-20 are photos taken by various photographers during the Airshow China - 2016 and filming of "aviation enthusiasts" watching the developments at the Huangtianba flight test base of Chengdu Aerospace Corporation and the testing centers of the Ministry of Defense of the PRC. They show that the external differences between the early prototypes and the latest samples are insignificant, which may indicate the acceptance (approval) by the customer of the general appearance of the aircraft, its basic flight performance characteristics.

Mass dimensions and armament

Possessing close wing span values (within 13.5-14 meters), the J-20 slightly exceeds the PAK FA and F-22A in length (according to various estimates, it ranges from 21 to 23 meters against 19-20 for foreign "analogs" ).

The weight of the structure is about 20 tons, which is a ton-one and a half more than for PAK FA. With full combat load takeoff weight can reach 40 tons. It turns out that the mass dimensions J-20 is closer to the heavy interceptor MiG-31 (length - 21.6 meters, wingspan - 13.5 meters, empty weight - about 22 tons).



An analysis of the available photo-view allows us to distinguish the following features of the aircraft with respect to its weapons and airborne systems. Among the characteristic features of the fifth-generation fighter aircraft is the presence of internal compartments for weapons. In the fuselage of the J-20 there are three compartments for the weapons: the central, four medium-range guided missiles of the type PL-12/15/21 (or the same number of bombs of caliber up to 500 kilograms) and two side ones, each for one SD Range type PL-9/10.

A clear trend of recent times is the replenishment of the list of on-board systems of new fighter sensors, which allow in passive mode to detect enemy aircraft without fear of being detected by their own radiation (which is considered to be a defect in airborne radars). Fresh samples of the J-20 are distinguished by the presence on board of electro-optical systems (EOS) of two types - an analogue of the domestic ("OLS-UE" on the MiG-29K) and EOS with a distributed aperture (like the American EODAS on the F-35).


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b787

Captain
Configuration and aerodynamics

Images taken from different angles give new interesting information about the aircraft, including the shape of the wing in the plan and the ability to analyze the features of the aerodynamic layout of the aircraft in order to understand what the machine is designed for, what its performance characteristics, structural and technological features will be.

The area diagram in cross section J-20 is very flat (without peaks) over a large length of the longitudinal axis of the aircraft, starting from the inlet of the air intakes and to the tail part, ending with the nozzles of the motors. Meanwhile, the same for the F-22A, F-35 and PAK FA - more "humped", with a characteristic peak in the center. Unlike the Russian and American colleagues, the linkers from Chengdu, led by chief designer J-20 Yang Wei, "maximized" the plane, reducing the cross-sectional dimension of the aircraft (not the fuselage, namely the aircraft, taking into account the thickness of the TsPGO and the wing) . The pay for a smoother diagram was an increase in the ratio of the length of the fuselage J-20 to its midship by approximately 15-20% relative to the F-22A.



The flat area diagram in the cross section of the aircraft is an important consideration for transonic modes. The aerodynamic configuration of the J-20 is optimized for transonic and small supersonic flight speeds with acceptable characteristics at subsonic modes and high supersonic ones. At high values, the air intakes made by the DSI type (diverterless supersonic inlet) with the boundary layer rotation are not working well. They first appeared on the F-35, providing a reduction in the visibility of radar facilities and at the same time retaining efficiency up to Mach number M = 1.4.

It turns out that the J-20 is an uncompromising machine for supercruise modes, more correctly, for transonic and "supersonic" cruising modes with Mach numbers in the M = 1.3-1.6 area are limited. Such speeds can be obtained on it without switching on the forced mode of operation of the engines. This allows us to realize a long flight in supersonic on the non-flexural modes of the power plant operation, to which the planes of past generations are incapable.



To fully reveal the features of a very interesting and progressive aerodynamic configuration, a suitable engine with high parameters is required. So far, the prototype aircraft used AL-31F (12.3-13.5 tons) and WS-10G (14-15 tons) - they suit the plane badly. Even with the purchase of more powerful versions of Russian motors of the AL-31F family (for example, with the M2 and M3 indices of the MMPP Salyut production) by China, it will not be possible to provide the J-20 with a suitable power plant, since these types of engines are optimized for aircraft with other (excellent) Performance characteristics.

"Super-cruise" modes in a wide range of heights will be in force by J-20, if Russia supplies the Chinese with engines of the AL-41F1M type ("product 117") with a thrust of about 14.5-15 tons. This is possible, since similar ones are used on Su-35S fighters, which are sold to China in the amount of 24 units. Another option will be opened with the restart of the production of the D-30F6 (which is used on the MiG-31 interceptor), especially improved options, such as a more powerful modification with a thrust of 16.5 tons, which was developed for the MiG-31M space interceptor. The third possibility is if the local engine builders bring to mind a prospective WS-15 engine with a maximum thrust of about 17-18 tons.
Deceptive similarities

Among the aviation enthusiasts, the opinion was formed that the J-20 was based on the experimental aircraft "1.42" OKB im. AI Mikoyan, who performed several flights in 2000. Indeed, with a cursory glance, two aircraft seem to be something similar. However, if you carefully study the J-20, it turns out that in its design a lot of that on the MiG has never been. At the same time, we will not say that cooperation with the OKB im. Mikoyan gave little to his Chinese colleagues.

Most likely, the situation is the opposite, because in aviation, especially combat, design practice, confirmed by flight tests, is a priceless thing, and any acquaintance with it through foreign colleagues only benefits. Here the main thing is not to repeat your mistakes and mistakes, but, taking them into account, move on along the path of progress, which the designers from Chengdu, of course, succeeded.



However, it seems more appropriate to say that the basis for the creation of the J-20 was the project of the lightweight front-line fighter of the fourth generation J-10, made earlier by the Chengdu Corporation (length - 15.5 meters, wing span - about ten meters, weight of the structure - about Ten tons). Of course, the gap for the generation (the first flight of the J-10 took place in 1998, entered service in 2006) makes itself felt.

General - both aircraft are different aerodynamic scheme "duck" with deltoid wing. They differ in static instability; The balancing in flight is provided by a digital electric remote control system (EDSU) (in the West such aircraft are said to be "guided" in flight). J-10 and J-20 are equipped with a "glass cabin" with an information-control field based on multifunction indicators with color liquid crystal matrices (MFIs with LCD).

disadvantages

Do not forget that the plane is always a compromise. And this means that he is not without flaws. Taking into account the large geometric dimensions, mass and availability of the CSSC, the Chinese aircraft has a large radar visibility. In comparison with the F-22A and PAK FA, it is characterized by low thrust, at least in the versions with the AL-31F and WS-10G engines.

Inadequate, in comparison with the F-22A and PAK FA, the thrust-even with promising WS-15 engines-lowers the value of the J-20 as a fighter for gaining dominance in the air. Probably, this fact explains the interest of the People's Republic of China in the purchase of Su-35S fighters. Somewhat better, the aircraft approaches the role of an interceptor in the country's air defense system, which replaced the obsolete J-8-II. But for him there are no long-range air-to-air missiles such as Russian R-33s. And if any, they will be difficult to "fit" inside the central compartment of weapons, not to mention the side.



At the same time, the J-20 can become a good attack aircraft capable of operating effectively without air cover in the face of countering the enemy's air defense system based on the F-16, F-18, MiG-29 fighter aircraft and the like, from a dangerous rapprochement with them It can evade due to better kinetics.

When equipped with suitable anti-ship missiles, the J-20 will create a serious threat to the possible enemy warships operating in the water areas adjacent to the Chinese coast. In the latter capacity, it will be able to replace the Chinese FH-7A and the Russian Su-30MK2, which are in service with the naval aviation regiments of the Navy of the People's Liberation Army.



When discussing the future of the J-20, the main questions for the expert community do not arise with designers, aerodynamics, and hardy designers-most agree that they coped brilliantly with their tasks. The main questions are for engine builders, instrument-makers and other suppliers of the second and third level: will they be able to create components for the J-20, which, at a general level, would approach the quality of the above-listed specialties? On their success depends on whether the J-20 really is a first-class combat aircraft comparable to the latest American and Russian developments. This question is still open.

Author: Vladimir Karnozov

Photo: Mukeshuang / Elizabeth Xue Bai / Li Gang / Jia Yuchen / Xinhua / Leonid Faerberg / Transport Photo Images / Globallookpress / Alexey Ivanov / TRK "Zvezda"
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Iron Man

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Russian fanboi article that makes decidedly ludicrous conclusions like equipping the J-20 with antiship missiles and deciding that the J-20 may not be the equal of the PAK-FA, which is itself more like a 4.5gen fighter. So I guess that would be a big insult to the J-20. LOL
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
Interesting article b787, makes you wonder how much Russian help CAC received on the J-20.

CAC have had connections with MiG and research carried out at SibNIA and TsAGI especially the early days of CAC. Now CAC does almost everything by itself.

Hui Tong speculates CAC may have require Russian help when assessing low-RCS platforms in the initial stages:

...
Russian assistance was also speculated in terms of software support for calculating the RCS and aerodynamics of various designs.
...

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Air Force Brat

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Russian fanboi article that makes decidedly ludicrous conclusions like equipping the J-20 with antiship missiles and deciding that the J-20 may not be the equal of the PAK-FA, which is itself more like a 4.5gen fighter. So I guess that would be a big insult to the J-20. LOL

While parts of the article are fair, the powerplant and low observable put-downs are laughable, particularly that the PAK-FA is superior to the J-20 in RCS, that's got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read!
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Low key and without much fanfare J-20 enter active service according to Henri K
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And it is in the news as well Guancha first posted by Hydropod
Chinese state media CCTV confirms that J-20 had entered active service.
Only an one liner at the end of the clip but it's a confirmation nonetheless.

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C6g_-FqWgAAVxrc.jpg

Since the first delivery of three D-20 , in serial version, to the Chinese Air Force three months ago to the day, rumors began to circulate on the entry into service of this combat aircraft Chinese new generation. No institutional confirmation has been made so far, either by the local authorities or by its manufacturer, the AVIC group. But it is now done.

Indeed, in the military televised newspaper of CCTV-7 on Thursday, March 9, hosted by journalists of the Chinese army, the news was officially announced. But, as the Chinese custom has it, it passed almost unnoticed.

"New equipment such as the Y-20, H-6K and J-20 have joined the ranks of the People's Air Force ...", a simple sentence that lasted only six seconds In the middle of a report of a few minutes on the reforms undertaken by the Chinese army.

Without a drum or trumpet, no detail was filtered, but the message was captured by all the viewers and already made the buzz on the net in China.


If Chinese enthusiasts are already pleased that their country has become the second in the world to have admitted to active service a 5th generation combat aircraft (4th according to the Chinese classification), it should be remembered that project 718, project code Of the J-20, has not yet passed its design certification (定型 定型), one of the two most important milestones in a Chinese military program and synonymous with the definitive acceptance of design by the Chinese Army.

But the J-20 program is not the first to be admitted to active service before design certification. In 2003, the first pre- production J-10s were delivered to the Chinese Air Force for "test use", while its design certification took place only April 2004. The all-new Chinese fighter aircraft seems to have taken the same path as its elder, also designed by the same engineering firm - the 611 Chengdu Institute - and manufactured by the same CAC (Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation ).

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The framework document co-authored by the former chief engineer of the 611 Chengdu Institute, SONG Wen Cong.

Since the publication in March 2001 of the framework document " A research on the aerodynamic characteristic of a small aspect ratio, high lift figther configuration " prepared by the former chief engineer of the 611 Chengdu Institute and its three colleagues, The general aerodynamic configuration of today's J-20 - and the victory of this configuration in October 2007 against the tri-plan of the 601 Shenyang Institute in the tender of the Air Force Chengdu engineers have succeeded in realizing this project by taking advantage of the results of the preliminary studies which started in the 7th Five-Year Plan (1986-1990).

Passive stealth, electromagnetic compatibility, avionics and advanced aerodynamics, new materials .... These are so many subjects that have been studied with the means of the edge of the time. But if the Chinese were not able to manufacture such a plane in the 90s, they knew exactly what they wanted for 2020.

Thus, the first technological demonstrator, registered 2001 and painted in dark green, made its first flight on January 11, 2011, surprising many observers. The second followed and flew in turn 16 months later. Chengdu then manufactured 6 prototypes that carried out their inaugural flights between March 2014 and November 2015, a steady pace that shows that the design of departure is correct and that there have been no major problems, probably thanks to a very Long period of pre-study.

2017-03-10-Lavion-de-combat-J-20-est-entr%C3%A9-en-service-11.jpg

The model of the proposal of the 611 Chengdu Institute in 2005, from the one that became the J-20 of today.

2017-03-10-Lavion-de-combat-J-20-est-entr%C3%A9-en-service-12.jpg

The ceremony after the first flight of the first technological demonstration of Project 718.

Today, at least thirteen D-20 have already flown including five of series (or pre-series).
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for the mass production of this aircraft, which made
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the
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day of the 2016 Zhuhai Air Show.

According to some local sources, some 40 of this Chinese Very Low Observable (VLO) fighter is expected to be produced before 2020. The AECC engineers, a new public company with nearly 100,000 employees, Of the 46 pre-existing companies and subsidiary companies, are currently working on several engine versions dedicated to the J-20 - including the famous WS-15 - the latest Achilles heel in the Chinese aerospace industry.

To be continued.

Henri K.

Appendix: All the articles on the J-20 program can be consulted
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Blitzo

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Is what is being suggested that the J-20 is now on D-20s?

No.

It's that Russian commentator's suggestion/speculation that variants of D-30 could be an option in future, but using some critical thinking about the plausibility of it right now I think there's no reason to consider it as any sort of primary contender at this stage...

The seriousness of taking Russian comentator/analyst's views on Chinese military developments is... limited,based on past track record, let's remember.

That article even says J-20 would make an attack aircraft equipped with AShMs lol.
 

Blitzo

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Registered Member
When discussing the future of the J-20, the main questions for the expert community do not arise with designers, aerodynamics, and hardy designers-most agree that they coped brilliantly with their tasks. The main questions are for engine builders, instrument-makers and other suppliers of the second and third level: will they be able to create components for the J-20, which, at a general level, would approach the quality of the above-listed specialties? On their success depends on whether the J-20 really is a first-class combat aircraft comparable to the latest American and Russian developments. This question is still open.

Author: Vladimir Karnozov


With all respect to Russian colleagues, unfortunately their credibility for speculating about Chinese military developments is rather limited, and this article by Mr Karnozov doesn't do that credibility any favours.
 
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