OT
A hole burnt in your C-119 is a small matter. I saw the vertical tailplane of a Fokker F-27 that had been hit by lighting over Southern Germany and the air inside had expanded and popped the rivets on both sides over the whole height.
J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V
- Thread starter Deino
- Start date
- Status
A hole burnt in your C-119 is a small matter. I saw the vertical tailplane of a Fokker F-27 that had been hit by lighting over Southern Germany and the air inside had expanded and popped the rivets on both sides over the whole height.
Exactly those J-20s and Shenyang Flankers are very well constructed aircraft, as I noted, those large carbon panels on the upper wings appear to be very nicely finished, and the riveting looks parallel and even, very nice, very attractive. China has been building some very high-end bicycles for world class companies, Pinarello, just to name one, its hard to tell the no-name fakes from the real thang!
I bet that set up a buzz over the whole airframe, could have been fatal, if the pilot had not pulled the throttles back and reduced airspeed! Those Fokkers were like Geese here in Central Illinois, the coyotes would howl for minutes as they approached and departed the area, they must have hurt their ears!
Huh? Are you talking about knock-offs and counterfeits? Sorry I am not sure whether you are being sarcastic.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
He's talking about bicycles. The quality of China's carbon bicycles is so high that he couldn't tell the difference between the $4,000 brand name bikes made in China and those $400 carbon frames sold on ebay that are copies of the brand names.
Well, that's mostly because many of those are out of the same factory. Pinarello orders 5,000 frames and the factory makes 5,500 frames. 5,000 go to Italy for painting and branding, and the other 500 are sold to people on ebay for a fraction of the cost. Overhead is huge in the pro bike industry. Chinese manufacturers know that it only takes a few bad frames that fail, causing life-threatening injuries, before people are too scared to buy direct so those bikes are often made with additional internal carbon bracing compared to the ones that go for branding.
Those "knock off" frames are often 50-100 grams or so heavier (On a ~1kg frame) but can withstand higher impact than the original and are stiffer, allowing for enhanced power transfer. In a test where a real Pinarello-branded frame and a Chinarello (slang for fake Pinarello) frame were both dropped from x meters height with 70kg weight on top, the Pinarello scored an 80 and the Chinarello scored an 86!
There are other stories of riders who purchased a $10,000 Pinarello but babied it, reserving it for racing. They then bought a $400 Chinarello frame and built it up (maybe $2-$3k depending on components and whether they were MSRP or craigslist deals) for daily training only to find in the end that the Chinarello performed better and became the choice for racing as well. The Pinarello became a snobby wall ornament!
And that was many years before. Now, they have learned and they have independently-developed frames with even more competitive weights (frames in the 7XX gram range) but the price has also creeped up (from about $300 to $550) for the best latest models. Nonetheless, last year's models can still be had for cheap ($3XX).
Interesting. Thanks for the background info. I am not familiar with bicycles, let alone these pro-level gears.
"Nailed It"
It's a matter of the quality of finish. Simply by looking at the picture, you can see that the rivets seem irregular; they're not perfectly identical to each other, suggesting that they're not perfectly flush. On the other hand, quite possibly, the J-20 may pursue a dual RAM strategy where maintenance-intensive RAM paint is only applied before combat missions, and this obscures the rivets.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
China can and do produce very high quality products .. it's just that most American consumers only known them for the low quality $9.95 plastic Wally World toys and other doohickeys. The low quality is more of a function of price than country of origin.
If you ask a German/Japan company to produce said toys etc at the same price point it would of similarly low end quality ... Perhaps even worse due to higher labor cost.
The problem with China is branding not lack of ability. They do not have a well known 'quality/trusted' China made brand. Most of the high end products made in China are made for Western companies like Apple, Motorola etc but they are slowly making in roads there as well. They also lack a robust marketing campaign. I think if there is one area China lacks is in mastering marketing and self promotion.
Take BMW for example.. Believe it or not they are not reliable and have atrocious maintenance schedules yet because of the genius in marketing they are consider a premium brand in the auto world.
Japanese cars were considered junk in the 80s but now they are considered the most reliable vehicles around. Same with the likes of Hyundai and Kia in the 90s. Samsung , .sony etc had to grow from scratch.
Personally I think China needs to start investing and make really good quality cars with indigenous designs and start selling them worldwide. Nothing gives you more marketing presence and brand recognition than cars. Almost everyone wants one and most need one.
The worst thing they can do is flooding the world market with cheap low quality cars which unfortunately they are doing now ...because it would further perpetuate the stereotype.
Oftentimes you have to take a big initial loss to make your brand shine because it pays off in the long run. In China's case it's not only the company's reputation but the country as well.
“Nailed it!" (me tips hat to Air Force Brat)
Cannot agree more on the importance of creating reputable consumer brands.
- Status