Jura The idiot
General
talking about shooting ... I asked you something on Facebook bro
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- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Here again, you are assuming the worst of the US? granted Obama and Hillary were devious, but Mr. Trump will be upfront and fair. We are NOT trying to be devisive, we would prefer to get along with everyone, and be fair traders and partners, its not hard.
To "subjugate" another person or culture is "un-American", we don't play those games.
I don't find that to be paranoia at all. It is only logical that just as the US and the PRC mended fences to tip the scales against the USSR, it makes sense for the US and Russia to mend fences to tip the scales against the PRC. Obviously not in the same ways on the same issues.
I kind of doubt that.
Trump will probably only be in the presidency for one term, probably not two, and Russia should know that the undercurrents of what drove the last 16 years of US policy to Russia will remain in place in the US establishment regardless of Trump, and those undercurrents will almost definitely remain in place after Trump leaves.
More importantly, Russia and China are not currently engaged in a hostile state of confrontation with each other in the same way that the USSR and China were during the Cold War. If anything I expect China and Russia to continue drawing closer together.
Oh, I'm sure the US under Trump may improve its relations with Russia a little possibly by not stepping on Russia's toes as much in their own back yard, but the lack of any hostility between China and Russia (and if anything, the high state of trust and mutual geopolitical interests between them) means the prospect of the US and Russia "teaming up" on China is laughable.
PRC-Russian co-operation is merely lukewarm. The US can easily keep that cool or dampen it further through adjusting its direct relationship with both countries as well as influence allies' and other countries' relationships with the two. Time will tell who gets the last laugh.
Question is for what purpose?
US and PRC gang-up against USSR was because both faced the pushing of USSR, China facing Vietnam, Afghanistan, Mongolia, the huge Sino-Soviet boarder, while US facing pressure in Africa, Central America and Europe.
Although Trump may soften a bit than Clinton towards Russia, the general thinking in US establishment is not going to change, so the pressure on both China and Russia remains fundamentally unchanged.
So I don't really see a drastic change among the three.
On the contrary, I think the relationship between China and Russia over the last few years has become quite warm. Still realist, but also still warm, with no meaningful disputes of any kind.
And let's be honest here, for Russia, the relationship with China has been the most productive, positive and receptive major power among any of the world's powers especially after Crimea, and I'm sure Putin remembers that.
What you described is just general international diplomacy. For your previous post to be considered, we would have to look at what realistically the US will need do to achieve your suggestion and what the US realistically would be able to achieve, versus what Russia will be willing to accept as a US offer and also versus how much they would be willing to degrade relations with China.
And on balance I think there is very little reason to believe that what a Trump presidency can offer to Russia would be enough to turn Russia against China, especially considering the US will still be there after Trump leaves the white house eventually in four or eight years time, and the US by then will still remain the world's most powerful military and the institutional think tanks and establishment hawks will almost definitely still hold the same view against Russia that they do now.
If anything I expect Putin and Xi to coordinate a little to maximize the benefits their two countries can both gain by playing Trump.
So really at this stage I think it's waaay too premature to suggest that a Trump presidency will mean Russia will join up with the US and turn against China(???), not only because we have no idea what Trumps actual foreign policy will look like (meaning the most likely answer we should be saying is "we don't know"), but also more importantly because the things the US (even under Trump) can afford to bring to the table for Russia will almost definitely not be enough for Russia to degrade its relationship with China let alone actually turn on China.
I'm actually very confused as to why you believe this is even a realistic prospect to begin with, because there has never been any indication by Trump that he would be interested in joining with Russia against China, nor do we have any reason to think that Putin would be interested in joining with the US against China either, especially when the biggest threat to Russia's security and interests will continue being the US rather than China, during and after Trump's presidency as well.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
What am I assuming the worst of the US? Trump's connection to Russia? That's not my conspiracy. That point is irrelevant to this discussion. It's the belief that Russia would follow the US against China just because Trump is President that is relevant. If Russia were game, they would've already done that. No Trump needed. Russia holds a grudge against the US, not China, over the Cold War. What is Trump to Russia? If Trump is making money off the Russians as charged, Trump is the subordinate to Russia hence the conspiracy charge. No American would be complaining if Russia were the subordinate to Trump and thus the US since he's been elected President. Just because Trump is President it doesn't mean the tables have turned and Russian will follow the US now. Russia still holds all the cards and can destroy Trump if there was a conspiracy as charged because he's the one beholden to Russia for allowing him to make money off of them. The US does prefer a Russia and the US team up against China. Ever since Tom Clancy's Bear and the Dragon was published to the Obama era, people have been talking about Russia and the US teaming up against China. There was talk of Russia joining up with the US against China while the Russian were moving into Crimea and the US was leading calls for sanctions on Russia. Russia is seen as a subordinate that while the US leads sanctions against Russia, somehow they will follow the US blindly in taking down China? It hasn't happened because Russia doesn't see the world in the same way as Americans do. The fact is if China weren't around, Russia knows they would be next. To believe that Russia will follow what the US wants is seeing Russia as a subordinate. It's no different thinking all of Asia will follow the US blindly into war against China which many taunt.
Yes, I saw it and thanks for asking, Levi is off the vent and doing much better, Chief Trauma surgeon told family she cannot explain why Levi is alive, bullet hit a wooden rake handle and fragmented, hitting him in the heart, spleen, and stomach! the Dr. told the family that his life is a miracle, I believe the Lord was "protecting him" supernaturally.
I seldom call anything a miracle, most things people call miracles are honestly "happy circumstances" which are still awesome. Levi is a bona-fide "Miracle" according to the Chief Trauma Surgeon, clinical evidence is the "convincer".