ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't understand your point, undoubtedly it was essential to remove this dictator.

But you do realize that the "undoubtedly" is ONLY held by some including you, but very doubtful by many others?

And what is really difficult to understand? Just a hint, Libya is a failed state after Kaddafi's oust, agreed? It is actually not even a state any more in any effectual sense. Sarkozy was the champion of the regime change, wasn't he? So Sarkozy made Libya a "non-state". Is it just that simple?

By the way, don't taunt the political banner "dictator" to justify the evil deed of Sarkozy, human lives value much much more than a simple political slogan, talk to the Libyan refugees or Syrian refugees or Iraqi refugees to get a grip of the value of that word. I am sure it is easy to find them in Paris or elsewhere in France these days.
 

delft

Brigadier
I don't understand your point, undoubtedly it was essential to remove this dictator.
Not for millions of Libyans who now live in misery in a failed state overrun by terrorists.
BTW Western countries often are very happy with dictators, think of the Shah, Pinochet, Ngo Dinh Diem, Sing Man Rhee, Mobutu, really to many to name them all. Notorious is now the regime in Bahrain.
 
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Not for millions of Libyans who now live in misery in a failed state overrun by terrorists.
BTW Western countries often are very happy with dictators, think of the Shah, Pinochet, Ngo Dinh Diem, Sing Man Rhee, Mobutu, really to many to name them all. Notorious is now the regime in Bahrain.
delft

Now you go out it is not the matter

For Libya what is the connection with Syria or Irak maybe ?
 
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
But you do realize that the "undoubtedly" is ONLY held by some including you, but very doubtful by many others?

And what is really difficult to understand? Just a hint, Libya is a failed state after Kaddafi's oust, agreed? It is actually not even a state any more in any effectual sense. Sarkozy was the champion of the regime change, wasn't he? So Sarkozy made Libya a "non-state". Is it just that simple?

By the way, don't taunt the political banner "dictator" to justify the evil deed of Sarkozy, human lives value much much more than a simple political slogan, talk to the Libyan refugees or Syrian refugees or Iraqi refugees to get a grip of the value of that word. I am sure it is easy to find them in Paris or elsewhere in France these days.

In the right stuff according an incontestable decision for human right especially.
No dictator in France :cool:

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973
demands the immediate establishment of a ceasefire and a complete end to violence and all attacks against, and abuses of, civilians
...
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I let' s you to this point...

And what is your country ?
 
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
After Libya was "liberated" many of the weapons of the country were "exported" by the sponsors of the "Libyan revolution" to Syria mostly by way of Turkey to try to achieve a similar "liberation" there.

Ah ok... but so few weapons for change the situation, ISIS or other have take majority of weapons in the area mainly from Irak Army.
In big part the Iraqi governement weakness to promote ISIS.

But in this area since many decades there are problems...including internaly, between them... !!! so in fact no surprising again events...
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
A well-trained, well-organised, well-led, and moderately well armed army does not suddenly spring into being out of nowhere in an instant. It took time, training and experience for ISIS go from fanatical individuals into an effective fighting force.

Not only did the west actively help create the perfect breeding ground for ISIS in Libya by giving ISIS the opportunity to organise, recruit, train, plan and ultimately launch their attack in Iraq. Many of the core fighters who went on to form the backbone of ISIS got training from western, Turkish and Gulf state special forces instructors, first in Libya, then in Turkey or Syria.

Without Libya and Syria, half of Iraq would not have fallen to ISIS, or at a minimal, would not have fallen so spectacularly rapidly as to allow ISIS to capture the huge weapons stocks and money they did.

But this is all off topic.

Back to the main subject, the war of words between Russia and the US is escalating in the aftermath of the US air strikes on Syria government forces.

The US response to this disaster has been feeble at best, and the Russians are certainly not going to let them off the hook easily.

The only way the US could salvage the ceasefire deal is to offer Russia major concessions, which the US are currently resisting.

The Russians are incrementally upping the pressure by walking slowly away from the negotiating table, all the while reminding the world it was a frankly embarrassing (if it did really happen as claimed) balls-up by the US military that is the core reason.

The US has also unwittingly crossed a dangerous line by killing Syrian government troops so directly and publically.

Now their own special forces on the ground are going to be in unprecedented danger, as even if the Syrians and Russians don't actively go gunning for them when the fighting resumes, they are going to be far less inclined to go out of their way to prevent US forces ending up on the wrong end of 'friendly fire'.

If US ground forces end up under an air strike or artillery barrage, the Russians and Syrians could quite legitamtely pariot back America's own feeble excuses about it being a complext situation and add America refusal to share Intel and co-ordinate the fight as further factors leading to the 'accident'.

I would almost expect such a 'friendly fire' incident to happen around late October, early November time.

Trump would absolutely blame it all on Obama, which leaves Hillary in the awkward position of having to choose to either stand by the president (and risk taking a beating in the polls), or have both candidates for US president agree that the deaths of US service personnel are Obama's (and by extension, the US government's) fault rather than Syria or Russia's.

The US strategy of relying on 'moderate rebels' was a total pipe dream from the start.

They need to either go big like the Turks and deploy ground forces officially and in significant enough numbers to take ISIS head-on without needing to rely on unreliable rebels, or get out of dodge and pull their ground forces out or risk gift wrapping Syria and Russia the perfect fulcrum to have a perhaps decision impact on the upcoming US presidential elections.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
In the right stuff according an incontestable decision for human right especially.
No dictator in France :cool:



I let' s you to this point...

And what is your country ?
Whether there is a dictator in France is irrelevant, non of my business, I don't give a diem. If the French people decide to remove their president today, peacefully or violently, so be it, it is the French choice, not anybody else. That is the core difference between you and me.

My decision may not be that "rosy" and "noble", but AT LEAST, I would not be responsible of creating a failed France.

As you say "there is no dictator in France", do you mean that IF one day there is a dictator or whatever "evil" president, other countries have the right to bomb Paris? I know, it is not likely, but I want your word for the principle, and by your logic, you MUST agree with it.

You believe in "nobel war", while I see all "nobel war" as the same as Crusade and Jihad. All being violence coverred in the cloak of "nobel" words, but nasty intensions within.

I know the UN mandate, so? Does it change the fact that Libya become a failed state and terrorist hotbed? And remember delft's original point was that "Sarkozy was the main actor of making Libya a failed state". That point stands firm with or without UN mandate. UN can make mistake, or forced to grant a mandate, UN is not God, Allah or Heaven, it is just a group of states, just like the French parlament which approved the bombing raid of Libya which turned out to be a disaster for the whole EU and Mid-East.

And what is your point of what my country is? What does that have anything to do with my point? Are you going to put up a giant label on me? And you think I care for that label?
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
And what is your point of what my country is? What does that have anything to do with my point? Are you going to put up a giant label on me? And you think I care for that label?
Haha with fight you have several, many times with 2 Japanese members i have a little opinion for where you from...
But i see your not courageous, clear and it is disappointing
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Haha with fight you have several, many times with 2 Japanese members i have a little opinion for where you from...
But i see your not courageous, clear and it is disappointing
I was sure that you know, but then why ask? Intimidation? Or to show self-superiority?

About being clear, hmm, I have not get any single answer or refutation to my points from you. I am not sure if you want to be clear.

And last, I think arguing with you and your Japanese "friends?" does need huge courage and more importantly patience since all of you dodge questions. Why not just refute my points? At least be honestly against me? The disappointment is mutual.
 
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