09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[FORBIN]

I got rough values from wiki. 100m for 091 and 110m 093 in length. 093B and 095 pure speculation. From satellite photo I believe 093B is longer that 093. For 095 I used Yasen's 120m as a base.

More precise i have :
091 : 98 m x 10 m ; displ full 5500 t
093 : 103 m x 11 m ; " " 6800 t
093B : 110 m x 11 m ; " " ~ 7800 t

Pump jet seems a fast and daring announcement right now very discutable

 

[FORBIN]

LA FlI/II : 110 dB and 688i/Fl III : 105, Virginia, Sea Wolf 95 so US are clearly better.
093 in this case about 115 dB, Sierra, Oscar 115/120 but much better as Han ! and Xia !!!
Clearly improvments for the 2 last but not among the best.

First Picture Of China's Secretive New Submarine

In June 2016, China's navy released a clear photo of its newest, stealthiest nuclear attack submarine (SSN) being loaded with missiles. China's nuclear submarines are among the most secretive Chinese military platforms--it's a rare event to have even a photo of a 40-year-old Type 091 Han submarine, or the Type 092 Xia nuclear ballistic missile submarine. So an official photo of a modern Type 093B submarine is definitely big news in the world of People's Liberation Army-watching.

on decades of Chinese advances in metallurgy and reactor/propulsion refinements.
The Type 093B "Shang" nuclear attack submarine is quiet, fast and the first Chinese combat submarine to be able to fire vertically launched cruise missiles. The United States Defense Department believes that three Type 093B SSNs were launched in 2015, and may enter service later this year. The original two Type 093 SSNs, launched nearly 15 years ago, were plagued by noisy reactors and propulsion systems, especially at high speeds, which limited their combat utility by making them highly detectable to enemy anti-submarine efforts. The Type 093B, in contrast, uses advances in Chinese metallurgy and reactor design to make a more quiet submarine. Experts place its stealthiness between that of the USN Los Angeles Flight I and Flight III SSNs.

While the stealth and performance of the Type 093B's reactor are not discernible just from looking at the outside, there are other noticeable improvements. The biggest is the installation of a vertical launch system battery behind the conning tower, which can be seen in a hydrodynamic hump blended into the hull (the VLS battery can be seen under the blue gangway). The VLS cell gives the Type 093B an advantage over older Chinese attack submarines since instead of launching cruise missiles from the torpedo tubes, it can more quickly launch missiles from the VLS. The larger size of VLS cells also makes them a good place to launch future underwater robots and UAVs. The Type 093B will still carry torpedo tube-launched cruise missiles, as seen in this photo. (The Chinese sailors are clearly loading a cruise missile canister into the torpedo tube, given that the smooth canister lacks the control surfaces of a torpedo.)

The Type 093B's conning tower has a flared base, similar to modern attack submarines like the Type 39C conventional submarine, and the American Virginia class SSN. The flared base could contain sensors, in addition to reducing under hydrodynamic drag and noise at certain speeds. There are also large installation mounts on the hull sides for side-mounted active sonar that will sweep for both surface warships and submarines.

Impressive a leap as the Type 093B may be for China's underwater force, the PLAN is already working on its next SSN. The Type 095 nuclear submarine, which may be launched before 2020, has been described by the Office of Naval Intelligence as a nuclear cruise missile submarine (SSGN) meaning that it'll carry a significant amount of cruise missiles, in addition to being a stealthy ship and sub hunter killer. The Type 095 SSGN is also likely to be quieter than the Type 093B, as well having underwater networked capability to worth with other manned and unmanned platforms above and underwater, and improved passive and active sensors. China has been behind other Pacific powers like the US and Japan in the undersea realm, but these examples of military modernization show how it is racing to close the gap.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[FORBIN]

I can not make up my mind regarding the number of VLS missiles. Both the satellite photo and the recent frontal photo are pretty blurry (plus the extreme frontal angle of the recent photo has a great compression effect on the much less protruding and tempered hump) to reveal the real length of the hump (therefor the number). I think we have to wait and see.

Impossible see VLS with sat view and you need a pic close and clear... very difficult to see the doors.

According report/article with pic of 093B, 2 yet, soon in service : 7 SSN now very possible the 2 next replace the 2 more old Han limited SSN... and which have around 30 years normaly new for SSF.

7 SSN for the 2nd Navy is a limited number, with SSGN ofc : France 6, UK 7 , Russia not in reserve available : 22, USA : 56.

 

[Hyperwarp]

Noise levels are very tricky issues. Lot of variable, including the speed of the sub. But in general what I have heard is:

Seawolf/Astute/Virginia: ~95 dB
Yasen: ~100 dB (probably less, but not as low as above)
Project 971U/971M: 105 dB
LA 688i: 105 dB to 110 dB
Trafalgar: 110 dB - 115 dB
LA 688: 115 dB - 120 dB
Project 971/ 971I: 130 dB
.....

I doubt 093 is at 110 dB. That would put it in 971U/971M, 688i Trafalgar range! PLA switched to 093B only after 2x 093 is because it didn't meet their requirement.

So here my estimation:
095: 105 dB - 110 dB
093B: 120 dB
093: 135 dB - 140 dB
091: 150+ dB

PS:
I found this floating in the net. No idea about accuracy.

 

[FORBIN]

Wow you put the fire to see on the right thread yet difficullt with 093B !

Quite sure it is the new of the month, Y-20 also but it is a cargo programm since several years we get all datas no comparison with this true war machine.


But I have catch very good from Henri K ! but 1st part i am tongue hanging for the next

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

He say pic to Qingdao in fact to Shakizou/Jiangezhuang 36° 6'36.78"N 120°34'25.33"E, 1 Submarine Base based him right now possible for commisionning*, 3 Han 403 -405 and the Xia 406.

He say also exist tunnel under the mountain so pic of A Man good ?

* 093 commissioned there and based to Yalong Bay realy possible for 093B.

And mainly possible 3 row of missiles so even if the hump is " enough short " remains posssible 12, i think.
I have see this drawing but always careful with China... but confirmed good now.

June 21, 2016, a picture of a Chinese submarine was published in the newspaper of the Chinese navy (人民 海军 报) and quickly made the buzz among enthusiasts.

Its length of around 100m and slightly different shape compared to an SNA type 09III says it would probably be a new variant of this class. Note especially 4 points:


• A: the frontal joint between the solid and the outer shell is slightly rounded and the top of the range, as the new SSK Type 039B Batch 2

• B: the "bump" or "platform" behind the mountains with a height of about 0.6m, using the sailors as a reference object

• C: the presence of what they might be flanking antennas above the waterline

• D: the disappearance of the navigation bridge, or at least the surface viewing windows

The question now is what is the role of this "hump" behind the mountains. Unfortunately, there is very little information to date, but we will try nonetheless to gather some evidence we have access as an amateur.

We know that the Chinese are working to make "multi-purpose" their ANS. Sources close to the Chinese navy had already raised for 2 years developing a certain type 09IIIB, which has vertical launch silos, not for ballistic missiles like the SSBNs, but to host both anti missile -navire and cruise missiles, all controlled by the same combat system.

The level of armaments, I learned already that it is the family YJ-18 is selected: YJ-18B for the anti-ship missile, and YJ-18 ground attack. There are at least 2 other variantzs YJ-18, namely the YJ-18A equipping the new Chinese destroyers like the 052D Type and Type 055 and the YJ-18C is a Sol-Mer version for coastal defense .

This new generation of missile family is close to that of 3M54 Russian Калибр, we certainly remember the Russian strikes on Syrian soil with cruise missiles launched by SSK from mediterranes and two corvettes from the Caspian Sea in 2015. the YJ-18 and the YJ-12 are the two families of Chinese naval missile of new generation, and will eventually replace the YJ-6x-8x and YJ.

On the question of why this form of "bump": The Chinese military standard GJB-5860-2006, which defines the new VLS system design criteria for Chinese surface ships, allows us to infer that the launch tube vertical YJ-18A has a length of 9m, and it is hardly possible that the version or Soum Soum-Mer-Sol is shorter, while the width of a strong 09III type of 8.6M. Assuming its section is circular, so it is logical to think that we must raise a portion of the hull to install the launch system, if we want to avoid touching the diameter of any submarine, or sacrificing performance missile by reducing its length.

well this is seen in a R & D document published in March this year, the launch tubes of the mounting system in a submarine.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

.../...

 

[FORBIN]

2/

Finally, where was this photo taken? The answer will help us to know what basis submariner new SNA is affected, and thus what is its geographical and operational priority.

China currently has three bases of nuclear submarines, one is near Lushunkou in the North, one in the northwest of Qingdao facing the Yellow Sea, and the last near Sanya on Hainan Island. It is not very difficult to locate the exact location of the photo.

A quick scan can see that the picture is taken at East Wharf base near Qingdao, right next to a dry dock for maintenance. It is from this base that the first type 09III was called to active duty in the Chinese navy December 23, 2006, in the presence of former Chinese President HU and the commander of the Chinese navy. An article published in February this year on the official website of the Chinese military also teaches us that a crew nuclear submarine No. 35 is in training to take delivery of the new equipment since last year, there are indications that it is the same submarine.

Although the average depth of the Yellow Sea is only 44m, an awkward situation for the discretion of nuclear submarines that need usually more than 70m in depth, but the base is ideally located it the allows for input and output under the mountain, and also quick access to the first chain of islands face in Japan, which is strengthened by deploying more ground facilities to lock benefit of access to the Pacific West by the Chinese. The base is also located within 70km of the first Chinese aircraft carrier base which is a little further south, facilitating the deployment of SNA to escort the Chinese aircraft carrier.

The following track.

Henry K.

Others pics also :

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[taxiya]

Alleged 093 passing malacca straight. It is the first time that I see 093 (not the latest with hump) with curvature at the base of the sail.

 

[taxiya]

so far what I have seen 093's variants.

1. the initial, straight joint of the sail. (093). There are two spotted simutanously in Hainan base.
2. curved joint of the sail (093A). At least this one.
3. curved joint of the sail + hump behind the sail (093B). At least the one in the recent photo.

I am guessing that, variant 2 would not be produced any more since 3 is in service.

 

[taxiya]

Regarding the hump, I am not very convinced that it is demanded by the VLS for cruise missile. In other words, hump or not, long or short humps is not a must for the VLS.

Remember type 032 testbed? It has the cruise/AShM VLS in front of the sail, but there is no protrusion for it under the body for it, the top is flat. And 093 is bigger in diameter than 032.

 

[FORBIN]

Alleged 093 passing malacca straight. It is the first time that I see 093 (not the latest with hump) with curvature at the base of the sail.

Details

According to Indonesian media MetroTV, 3 buildings of the Chinese navy were first seen on June 24 to the west of Banda Aceh, in the far west of the island Sumatra, and have crossed the Straits of Malacca the next day in innocent transit pass.

Captain Edi Sucipto, head of information department of the Indonesian Navy, said that the Chinese fleet sailed north. Some local media are wondering if it is a response from China after the recent incident around the island Natuna. For this Edi Sucipto said that the Chinese fleet has not approached the island of Natuna, behaved as marine and other buildings did not violate any provision in force.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

A solution can be the 4 new Shang, one 093A and three 093B, 093A sure get a different sail, also more long and more quiet ? ofc don' t have VLS.
But, very possible yet in service with SSF can be confirmed with her presence in the Strait of Malacca with FFG 054A 575-Yuncheng rattached to SSF...