Dreadnaught (Texas) vs. Most Modern (Iowa) Battleships

Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Jura said:
one thing here bro:
in the reality of WW1, the deadliest threats used to come from under the water ... the protection against them in the case of the Texas at that time was just the double bottom, and the anti-torpedo bulkhead (really thin armor) in the mid section, and coal behind it! as for Iowas:
/QUOTE]

Yeah but WWI submarines and torpedoes were still in the early stages of evolutionary development, therefore their range and time under water are limited.
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General

ironically, the French Danton (pre-dreadnought though) was torpedoed while
zig-zagging to foil enemy submarines
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(and sank in 45 minutes; according to wiki)

I referred also to sea-mines ... for example the HMS Audacious was sunk by a single one!

my main point was this wouldn't have happened to the New Jersey
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Jeff Head said:
Nope, not for the engagement of November 14-15. The Heil was not there in that battle. ...
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yes, I goofed :-(

now I'll try to make up for this :) there's a very interesting document available at
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"Kirishima Damage Analysis" by Robert Lundgren who examined the footage from the 1992 expedition to the wreck ... to cut the long story short, contrary to what was reported by the USN Commander (eight 16" hits), and by a Japanese POW who was believed (nine 16" hits), the actual number is 20
 
FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Jeff Head said:
The Montana class battleships were going to have the following characteristics:

Displacement: 72,000 tons full load
Length: 924 ft.
Beam: 121 feet (I think too big for the Panama Canal)
Draft: 36 feet
Speed: 30 knots
Crew: 2,800 (As Flagship)
Armament:
12 x 16-inch/50 cal guns (4 turrets x 3)
20 x 5-inch/54 cal guns (10 x 2 Turrets)
40 x Bofors 40mm AA guns
54 x 20mm AA guns
Armor:
16.1 inches (409 mm) belt armor tapering to 10.1 inch
7.2 inches (183 mm) side-belt armor tapering to 1"
18 inches (457 mm) forward bilhead armor
15.25 inches (387 mm) aft bulkhead armor
21.3 inches (541 mm) barbette armor
22.5 inches (572 mm) turret face armor
9.9 inches (251 mm) turret roof armor
9.3 inches (236 mm) Deck Armor
Aircraft:
4 x O2SU Kingfisher Patrol float planes
2 x Stern Catapults

With their twelve 16-inch/50 cal guns, and their better fire control, I think they would have been a deadly match against the Yamato class...but we shall never know.

Here's how the first in class, the USS Montana, BB-67, would have looked:

View attachment 18473

View attachment 18472

View attachment 18471

Five were planned and their construction approved, but before they started building them in 1942, the absolute need for Essex class carriers caused them to be first delayed, and then canceled.

By 1943 it was clear to US naval planners that the US Navy had plenty of battleships and that their time, as the capitol ship of the Navy, was past. As I say, more Essex carriers were ordered instead.

One thing did come of them, their hull design was used for the Midway class carriers, providing better maneuverability and stability for that carrier design.
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Oh yes strongly armored in fact super Battleships the ultimate battleships.

I have read a Iowa carry 1000 shells of 406 mm the right number ?

Btw i enjoy this thread :)
 
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Jura said:
...

"Kirishima Damage Analysis" ... to cut the long story short, contrary to what was reported by the USN Commander (eight 16" hits), and by a Japanese POW who was believed (nine 16" hits), the actual number is 20
Click to expand...

Garzke & Dulin believed this nine hits :) the second sentence of p. 46:
"In only seven minutes of radar-directed fire, the Washington hit the Kirishima with nine out of seventy-five 16-inch shells and about forty 5-inch shells, wrecking her steering gear and setting the topside aflame."

as for the steering gear part: as we now know, the rudder of Kirishima took a direct hit!
(it's #20 in
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FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
A what if question :) seeing Iowa modernised, a Harpoon with a warhead of 220 kg or better a former Tomahawk anti-ship 450 kg want a 406 mm or eventually 457 mm shell can perforate a big armoring ?

NB : Actually some ships have a little armoring often Kevlar around vital parts, US CVN flight deck thick also and Kirov up to 80 mm I believe.
 
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