JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Dizasta1]

So now the new item on the list is the Su-24 Strike aircraft. Mmmmm, well there are only 12 on the table. They cannot really be considered a fighter per say. Not a good acquisition, but I would have preferred this as a replacement for the Super Etendards as a Naval Strike Platform. If I had by preference I would have picked JH-7B for the Super Etendard replacements over the Su-24.

Personally I don’t see this deal materializing either. If the government was really serious about purchasing 24 JAS-39 from Brazil for 2.9 billion. They should just invest that money in either assemble or manufacture the FC-1/JF-17. This aircraft could not only replace the aging Mirage aircraft, but with a long enough production run could replace the aging A-4AR and reduce the logistics and maintenance program of the FAA with the use of the RD-33 engine.

2.9 billion will by a lot of FC-1/JF-17 and modern ASM, AAM and other munitions.

Back to bottling my Grenache

Yes, a $2.9 billion deal for JF-17 Thunders would get Argentina a whole lot more and I would hope that they would reconsider the offer.

However, whenever I look at Argentina's map and the War fought over the Malvinas Islands. I can't help but identify the fact that the Su-35BM Super Flanker ought to be the natural choice for Argentinian Air Force. In fact, if I were to advise the Argentina, then I would suggest that they reach an agreement with the Russians, of having their choice of RWR, MAWS, EWS, BVRM and SRAAMs, like the Malaysians, Algerians and the Chinese did. It would afford them a wider range of options for their new generation, true Air-Superiority fighter. And I would say that Argentina should start with an initial purchase of (36) Su-35BM Super Flankers, with the option of another 24, at a later stage.

 

[Jeff Head]

However, whenever I look at Argentina's map and the War fought over the Malvinas Islands. I can't help but identify the fact that the Su-35BM Super Flanker ought to be the natural choice for Argentinian Air Force. In fact, if I were to advise the Argentina, then I would suggest that they reach an agreement with the Russians.

I would suggest that you read the articles MirageDriver has posted in the World Military Forum about Argentina, both individual threads and in the South American military thread.

Argentina is cash strapped...and I believe Mirage is correct when he states that the real options for Argentina at this point are really only buying older, used aircraft or potentially the JF-17.

 

[Franklin]

According to this article the new RD-93MA engines will have a thrust of 9300kg or 91kN. A significant improvement over the current RD-93 engines with only 84,5kN. But I don't no how much performence improvement this will give to the plane as the JF-17 Thunder is getting heavier in weight as they add more and more features and subsystems on to that plane. China recently signed a contract with Russia for these new engines. This means that the WS-13 engine will be off the table for some time to come.

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According to UEC General Designer Alexander Ivakh speaking at the Engines 2012 salon in April, about 70 engines of the RD-33 family were made in Russia last year. Their production is run now by the Chernyshev Mashine-Building Enterprise in Moscow. Previously, the RD-33 Series 2 had been in production with the Baranov OMO enterprise in Omsk (at present, an affiliate of the Salut Gas Turbine Research and Production Centre), but the fact that customers order now RD-33 Series 3 and RD-33MK engines only has left Omsk-based plant with repairing and overhauling Baranov-made engines, while the production of new engines has moved to Moscow.

Chernyshev’s near-term production programme is determined by its current orderbook for the second batch of 29 MiG-29K/KUB carrierborne fighters to India (the first batch of 16 aircraft powered by Chernyshev-built RD-33MKs was delivered during 2009–2011) and the recent Russian Defence Ministry order for 24 fighters of the type. In addition, the plant supplied RD-33MK turbofans to fit the first two MiG-29M/M2 fighter prototypes.

The first MiG-29K/KUB jets are due to the Russian Navy’s air arm as soon as 2013, but the RD-33MK first has to pass its official bench tests for compliance with peculiar requirements of the Russian Armed Forces. Klimov JSC kicked off the tests on 28 January 2012.

An important position in Chernyshev’s production plans is also occupied by the deliveries of RD-33 Series 3 knockdown kits to India under the January 2007 contract on licence production of 120 engines of the type there. The programme is about half-complete.

Finally, the RD-93, a RD-33 derivative with the low-mounted accessory gearbox, is exported to China to fit FC-1 (JF-17) light single-engine fighters. The deal for 100 RD-93s with an option for 400 more was clinched in April 2005. The first 15 engines were assembled by Klimov, and Chernyshev has handled the rest of the deliveries since 2006. The contract is half-complete, and the deliveries shall resume as soon as the customer submits its request.

At the same time with the full-rate production in Moscow, Klimov JSC in St. Petersburg continues to refine the RD-33MK and RD-93. According to Klimov, the company’s jet engine priorities are the development of the modified RD-93MA with the thrust enhanced to 9,300 kgf for a foreign customer and the development of the upgraded RD-33MKM with a thrust of 9,500 kgf for the MiG corporation.

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[Franklin]

I would suggest that you read the articles MirageDriver has posted in the World Military Forum about Argentina, both individual threads and in the South American military thread.

Argentina is cash strapped...and I believe Mirage is correct when he states that the real options for Argentina at this point are really only buying older, used aircraft or potentially the JF-17.

China can always offer Argentina export off sets for the planes. China will import the same amount of goods from Argentina as the value of the planes. Since China is a largely a industrial economy and Argentina is largely a resources economy it shouldn't be a problem. China will simply be buying things from Argentina they need.

 

[Miragedriver]

They could strike a deal if they wanted to, there are monies for such a deal with China. Not only monetarily but also the trading of food commodities (beef, wheat, soy, etc…) as in the proposed deal for the SU-24 with Russia.

Making a deal with China for JF-17 production would be the smart thing to so. However, smart and prudent in Argentina do not go hand in hand. Most governments in Argentina (this one is a shining example) with do what is expedient and not what is best for that branch of the armed forces.

The JF-17 is the most logical aircraft for the FAA at this time. It is Mirage sized, easy to maintain and inexpensive to operate. Additionally it has lots of good weapon systems.

Personally I would love to see a JF-17 coproduction or assemble deal made. If Argentine does buy from china it would be existing aircraft/second hand. An example would be used J-10s of JH-7s


Back to bottling my Grenache

 

[antiterror13]

not sure whether China is prepared to upset the British to sell weapons to Argentina. I am not saying China is "scared" of British, but the relationship of these two country is at the best at the moment

 

[delft]

not sure whether China is prepared to upset the British to sell weapons to Argentina. I am not saying China is "scared" of British, but the relationship of these two country is at the best at the moment

Showing itself annoyed with China for providing JF-17's to Argentina would be a sign of weakness that would weaken the British position everywhere. And that while building two pretty large, and expensive, flattops and ordering the newest US strike fighters.

 

[Totoro]

china can afford to sell anything to argentina and britain is in no position to make any fuss about it, save for some noise in the media. China is several times more important as a trading partner to UK (percentage wise, exports and imports) than UK is to China.

 

[tphuang]

considering UK still has China on its arms embargo list, I don't think it really has much leverage here.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Well there's an article on Bloomberg that says BAE is selling weapons to India to help counter China. So does it really matter if the British get upset?