Which is just as much conjecture on your part as you claim my own statement was...."judging from."
To date nothing has been proven either way on exactly how the convoy got in. I simply gave another possibility.
That is all.
Crisis in the Ukraine
- Thread starter bd popeye
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To date nothing has been proven either way on exactly how the convoy got in. I simply gave another possibility.
That is all.
Jura The idiot
General
don't be shy, they push for the sea now!
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-45-6939.html#post301806while waiting for my breakfast in a hotel, I skimmed a scoffing anti-Ukrainian article (it's in Russian, I'll translate just the title: "The 24th Heart-Attack of Independence"; source:
and a thought occurred to me: several posters here expressed their concerns about the Ukrainian economy ... will they (or anybody else) comment on who, in their opinion, finance the military campaign of Separatists (I don't know this
but I recall reading an article at gazeta.ru about two months ago, where during the interview was complaining about a lack of support from Russia, said no financial means were provided; he's been ousted since then so on this occasion I don't care about looking for the link).
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My statement is nothing conjecture but based on Kiev/US/Obama/Nato/EU and their assorted western media propaganda mouthpieces that Russia violated Ukraine's soveriengty/invaded Ukraine. Yours is purely your unsupported conjecture.
I am very comfortable dealing with supported facts.
"The Ukraine suggested the convoy was a ruse and on Friday called the move by Russia a “direct invasion” that would provoke an international response, according to The Associated Press. "
(Not I say one but BBC hor)
"How are the Ukrainians reacting?
President Petro Poroshenko accused Russia of a "flagrant violation of international law" after the aid lorries entered Ukraine without permission.
Security chief Valentyn Nalyvaychenko described the convoy's entry as a "direct invasion" but added that no force would be used against it."
I am very comfortable dealing with supported facts.
"The Ukraine suggested the convoy was a ruse and on Friday called the move by Russia a “direct invasion” that would provoke an international response, according to The Associated Press. "
(Not I say one but BBC hor)
"How are the Ukrainians reacting?
President Petro Poroshenko accused Russia of a "flagrant violation of international law" after the aid lorries entered Ukraine without permission.
Security chief Valentyn Nalyvaychenko described the convoy's entry as a "direct invasion" but added that no force would be used against it."
Isn't that area in Kiev's maps marked as "liberated"? So the videos of the Southern Cauldron must be a Russia hoax.
Below the RIA map talked about a few posts ago is a list o f the private armies of oligarchs and most of their sizes. The existance of such private armies says a lot about the value of the Ukrainian army and of the politics of Ukraine. Might it be that the Ukrainian army was neglected for years to enable the oligarchs to achieve more with their private armies?
Jura The idiot
General
SampanViking, I think you're going to like this one: A moment ago my Russian acquaintance sent me the link
informing about alleged beginning of Separatists' push toward Debaltsevo (Дебальцево, like junction in between Donetsk and Luhanks) ... have to leave now though, will post when I'm back at home at about lunch-time
EDIT
Now I got back to the Internet and the information about a counter-offensive of Separatists is already available at ... a major Czech server where I check my emails I think the original article quoting Separatists is here:
And why I immediately posted about Debaltsevo? Because about two weeks ago I read at gazeta.ru the article in which an anonymous, but highly-ranked Russian source presented the view that Debaltsevo (lost by Separatists about one month ago) and Gorlovka (still kept by heavily armed Separatists, fortress-like) were the key ... If both fell, first Doneck, later Luhansk would be taken (I'm just repeating what I've read -- by the way that source commented on in the way which would be probably considered cynical from "Western perspective", which was "Strelkov" should have died during the fights in Slovyansks (becoming a hero in the process) and Separatists in Donetsk would have been united by this ...
informing about alleged beginning of Separatists' push toward Debaltsevo (Дебальцево, like junction in between Donetsk and Luhanks) ... have to leave now though, will post when I'm back at home at about lunch-time
EDIT
Now I got back to the Internet and the information about a counter-offensive of Separatists is already available at ... a major Czech server where I check my emails
I think the original article quoting Separatists is here:And why I immediately posted about Debaltsevo? Because about two weeks ago I read at gazeta.ru the article in which an anonymous, but highly-ranked Russian source presented the view that Debaltsevo (lost by Separatists about one month ago) and Gorlovka (still kept by heavily armed Separatists, fortress-like) were the key ... If both fell, first Doneck, later Luhansk would be taken (I'm just repeating what I've read -- by the way that source commented on in the way which would be probably considered cynical from "Western perspective", which was "Strelkov" should have died during the fights in Slovyansks (becoming a hero in the process) and Separatists in Donetsk would have been united by this ...
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When flight MH-17 was shot down i believed the official narritive which is that the rebels shot down flight MH-17 mistaken it for a Ukranian military plane. I thought that was possible even probable.
But now we have a situation were till this day the Ukranian authorities refuse to handover the recordings of the conversation between air traffic control in Kiev and flight MH-17. The Brits refuse to make public the recordings of the black box's that had been handed over to them more than a month ago. And more recently the Dutch government says that they will keep secret what they have learned. The only thing that they disclosed from the black box's is "that there was a massive explosion" and nothing more. What about the rest ? The Americans are not giving any of there surveillance data of flight MH-17 from their satellite and radar tracking. Its like one big conspiracy or coverup. What is on those recordings that we the public are not allowed to hear or know ? The media at this point is not pressing for it and neither are the families of the victims (although that might come in the Netherlands). We have to wait and see what the Malaysian government will do. After all it was their plane that went down.
But now we have a situation were till this day the Ukranian authorities refuse to handover the recordings of the conversation between air traffic control in Kiev and flight MH-17. The Brits refuse to make public the recordings of the black box's that had been handed over to them more than a month ago. And more recently the Dutch government says that they will keep secret what they have learned. The only thing that they disclosed from the black box's is "that there was a massive explosion" and nothing more. What about the rest ? The Americans are not giving any of there surveillance data of flight MH-17 from their satellite and radar tracking. Its like one big conspiracy or coverup. What is on those recordings that we the public are not allowed to hear or know ? The media at this point is not pressing for it and neither are the families of the victims (although that might come in the Netherlands). We have to wait and see what the Malaysian government will do. After all it was their plane that went down.
SouthernSky
Junior Member
Given the on going investigation, the sensitivities around that, negotiation required just to gain access to the site and with investigators on the ground who's safety can easily be compromised, is it really surprising that those with a vested interest in this sordid affair have refrained from public comment?
There was no danger to investigators during the first week after the crash. It is the sensitivities that let us suspect this is a sordid affair.
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